 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: k_squared
Date: 2004-08-27 18:15
Hello,
I purchased a couple of used Vitos (40 and Resotone 3) for my daughters. They both played OK, but it appeared that the pads were pretty worn. The Vito 40 definitely needed at least two pads replaced as they were leaking and I couldn't hold the notes. I took the clarinets to the only music store in our area. The owner called today and said that both should have full repads....cost: $250 each. He did replace the two pads on the 40 that were causing a problem. After the initial shock wore off, I told him I needed to wait to do the full repad. He does not do it himself, but sends them out to someone else. My questions are: Is this pretty much the going rate for a full repad or should I shop around a bit (I'm not even sure where another music store might be that's within one-two hours away)? Is there an online store that does repairs that has a good reputation and reasonable prices that I could mail them to? Can I get pads and do it myself or maybe find a local musician/band teacher that might be able to do it?
I thought the price seemed a little high, but I've never had to do it before, so I'm clueless. Any help, suggestions would be appreciated.
thanks,
kathy
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Author: pewd
Date: 2004-08-27 18:29
thats about right, for a compentent shop , depends a lot on where you live
check prowinds.com - they post their prices on the net
they advertise $250 for a student line clarinet repad
you will find some places cheaer, and in many cases, you get what you pay for. theres a shop near me that charges $175 but they do pretty sloppy work. other shops charge less than 250, and do a great job.
post the city you live in and someone on this board will probably recommend a shop nearby
-paul
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: k_squared
Date: 2004-08-27 18:43
unfortunately, I don't live near any city. I'm in the middle of nowhere in Northern PA (western half). Two hours from Pittsburgh, two hours from Erie, four hours from Harrisburg....
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Author: sbbishop
Date: 2004-08-27 18:53
One place to compare too..
http://www.cork-and-pad.woodwind.org/Business/servicesbusiness/servicesbusiness.htm
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-08-27 19:52
One question comes to mind, Kathy. If the store owner does not do the work - rather, sends instruments out to be fixed, how did the two pads get replaced on your instrument??? That sounds pretty fishy to me ![[frown]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie2.gif)
On the other side of the continent, (Sacramento, in central California), shops (four major ones) in my area charge around $160 for a complete re-do. Independents (the five whom I know) charge $120-$140.
[ All except one does very good work, and we're workin' on him  ]
My point is that even in and near small towns there are good techs around, although you may need to turn over a few rocks to find 'em. Ask around - musicians, band directors, teachers, students.
Another trend[?] that seems to be happening in my area is the high-pressure sales pitch; telling a customer their horn needs oodles of work (when, in fact, does not!) and it will cost a mini-fortune to get all it's horrible problems fixed. Scare tactics, in my opinion, are a really bad reflection on instrument repair shops and a couple of specific incidents that came to my attention in the past month made me cringe.
My final statement... $250 for a (clarinet) re-pad is way out of line... anywhere.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: John_May
Date: 2004-08-27 20:12
Wow... those are some downright ridiculous costs. Backun is quite high-priced as far as people around here go, and he'll do a complete overhaul on an R-13 for about 500 canadian. I payed 80$ canadian at a good shop in downtown Vancouver to get a yamaha recorked and repadded.
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Author: k_squared
Date: 2004-08-27 20:32
The owner of the shop will replace a pad here or there and I think he does minor cork repair as well, but he doesn't do complete overhauls. I think it's just be a time issue for him as he's got the only two stores in a 5 or 6 county area and he might be the only one who does any kind of repair work at all. I didn't ask where he sends them for the major work.
Thanks for the link to cork and pad...I'll check it out.
I'll also talk to the band director(s) and see if they have any suggestions. I may also take an old clarinet that we aren't using/don't need and see if I can replace them myself.
When I was in band in the 70's-early 80's, our band director replaced pads for us when needed, no charge or the charge was minimal, but that was just one pad at a time...not all of them at once.
If anyone has any other thoughts or ideas, I'm open to them!
thanks!
kathy
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Author: opus1
Date: 2004-08-27 20:47
First off I want to stress I'm no pro woodwind tech but I have overhauled about a dozen clarinets, a few flutes and exactly one sax and one oboe. (the last two are (*&^(*^& hard to do right!)
The big thing in my opinion is how well it is done, and how long it will last.
The longest lasting job so far (20 years and counting) is the cork pad upper joint of my R13. Aside from cleaning oiling and replacing the odd key cork it has worked perfectly now for decades!
Point is....do it right the first time and you will get performance AND longevity.
I understand there are now several options when it comes to pads , glue etc. Worth looking into.
PS If you have a steady embouchure and a tuner you could make a chart of the tuning to bring to the shop. A good tech can make an out of tune instrument play much closer to, or even exactly in tune. Just another example of getting what you pay for.
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-08-27 20:59
kathy,
I had a clarinet completely repadded and a crack repaired in the lower joint earlier this year. It came to $300 Canadian which is roughly $230 U.S. It was good workmanship and the repair tech even glued a piece of rubber on the thumb rest to make it more comfortable without being asked to.
Regards,
Hans
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-08-27 21:08
In case anyone didn't notice ...
Repair prices are all over the road. It depends on geographic location more than anything, and even then it can vary greatly.
The two times I had a tenon cork replaced (once on a clarinet, once on a sax neck): $30 for the clarinet, $15 for the sax. Two different stores, only 20 miles apart. Both did fine work, both took a few days. Guess which one I go to ...
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-08-27 22:38
kathy...if you posted your email address maybe you'd get some direct responses. People who run a business have costs that some "mom and pop" places don't. There is a difference between a complete overhaul and a pad replacement,however, a proper complete pad replacement should(IMHO) involve removal of the keys.....At that point the repairman may discover other things that should be remedied. If replacing two pads corrected the problem you were having why even consider replacing all of them at this time. If your guy truly sends horns out for a complete pad job ask him where he sends them.
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2004-08-27 23:53
Kathy,
From your description of where you live, it sounds like you aren't very far from Penn State. I'm sure there are a bunch of Nittany Lions that need pads on their clarinets. I've included a link to Penn State's Music Department, and if you choose to, you can drill down to a person who is their clarinet guru. I bet if you emailed him he'd tell you where the students get their pads done.
Just an idea . I don't know any Nittany Lions personally, and am not sure how far you are from State College, PA.
http://www.music.psu.edu/
John
PS another possibility is Slippery Rock
http://academics.sru.edu/music/mushome.html
Post Edited (2004-08-28 00:16)
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2004-08-28 00:13
Repair costs are locally based as Mark suggests. The shop rate charges are the same whether you are a local customer or from out of state. Another element that is "all over the road" is the definition of an overhaul. One needs to have a clear understanding on what is included in a repair shops repad. Some shops polish keys on a repad while others don't. It wasn't the practice to polish keys on repads in this area (Houston) until about 10 yrs ago. One of the shops in the greater Houston area started including this service in their repads, so to compete all the shops eventually started to follow suit. Some shops do not replace cork unless necessary on repads either while other replace all cork (both tenon and key). Overhauls also vary to a great degree. I was looking at a repair web site in another state and their "overhaul" included "up to three springs". I guess if all the springs need replacing there would be an upcharge. They also state that "tone hole repair" is additional. I didn't send an email, but I'm sure that is to cover the repair of slight tone hole blemishes that can cause pads not to seat. It is my philosopy that an overhaul should include all services that will get the clarinet working like new. I can see an upcharge for broken or damaged tenons, key plating (as most shops contract out for this work) and parts not necessarily involved in an overhaul (a new key or vent tube, etc).
jbutler
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Author: Bnatural
Date: 2004-08-28 00:18
Kathy, If John is right and you are in that area I can look into that for you if need be. A clarinet playing friend of mine just started a few weeks ago at main campus.
Dave
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Author: k_squared
Date: 2004-08-28 01:41
I'm about 1.5 hours from Penn State and actually go there quite often. There is only one music store there, Robert M. Sides, (at least that's the only store I'm aware of) and when I stopped in there a few weeks ago on a Sat., there was no technician and one of the sales people told me that they usually send instruments to their Williamsport store for repairs. I hadn't thought about the Penn State. I'm also about 1.5 hrs from Slippery Rock.
Dave, if you could pass on any Penn State info to me that would be great.
The owner of the shop that currently has the instruments told me that the keys would all be removed for the pad replacement and that was why the cost was so high. I'm pretty sure that the $250 was for pad replacement only....but I didn't ask if they did anything else was included.
I didn't realize my e-mail didn't show. It's k_squared66@yahoo.com if anyone would like to e-mail me privately with other info.
Thanks!
kathy
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2004-08-28 02:51
Kathy:
You might try contacting Carl Marks, at Marks Music in Hermitage, PA. (Look up "Carl Marks Music" on Google, and it will get you to his site).
He will also do things by mail.
Susan
Post Edited (2004-08-28 02:55)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-08-28 05:07
For ANY pad replacement, I find it actually quicker, and FAR better to take the keys off.
A efficient technician can take all the keys off and put them on again in about 5 - 10 minutes total.
It is what a good technician does while they are off that takes the time. It is an issue of future reliability.
<Can I get pads and do it myself..>
It's like asking, can buy a car clutch plate and fit it myself? Or can I buy a zip and fir it to my dinner suit? The answer is probably yes, but you will very likely fall into one of the many, many pitfalls waiting for those without expertise, experience, and appropriate equipment.
<...or maybe find a local musician/band teacher that might be able to do it?.
That is a bit like asking if you might find a local taxi driver to change the clutch plate. :-)
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2004-08-28 13:51
We are lucky in Atlanta (yea!!! - ClarinetFest 2006 in Atlanta) to have oodles of shops but they vary in quality and wait time. It is just as easy to send it to a shop like John Butler (a Woodwind.org sponsor), who does superb work, and know that the job will be done right and thoroughly and often pay less (even with shipping) than a local shop! Prices vary by location and competition within an area.
The Doctor
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Author: Jim E.
Date: 2004-08-29 04:04
Ron B.
Our local music shop has an itinerent repair person in once or twice a week to do small jobs, anything more than that they send out. They did a repad on my Selmer Signet 8 years ago, took a month, and charged more then than John Butler does now! (But it wasn't anything like $250!)
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-08-29 04:43
Jim E. :
I believe some of the independents around here do some shop 'drop in' work. I don't know of any of them getting that kind of money, $250, for clarinet re-pads either. They all pretty much get a fair rate for the work they do. At heart, they're not interested in gouging people because in the long run it's very bad for everyone's business. Local people will pilgrimage to nearby big city shops .
I had an instrument come my way last month for some minor repair. A local shop tech had told the customer the horn was completely "mis-aligned", had to have specialized work done to fix the problem, then needed a complete re-pad... quoted $250 for the service - maybe more if they found additional problems. I asked a tech friend to examine the instrument (without telling him the story behind it) and tell me what he found it needed, just to check my own observations (and self-presumed sanity). He 'confirmed' that the horn needed one pad, a minor adjustment, and a neck cork... $18.00
I took a dent out while I was at it -- just because I can... no charge.
I sometimes wonder what the repair business is coming to.
Folks, be informed - visit this Board with questions - then, shop smart, shop around.
- ron b -
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-08-29 12:37
Wait - that's INSANE to spend $250 on a Plastic Clarinet when you can get brand new ones at Woodwind Brasswind for around $350!
There's no reason why that repad job should cost more than $150!
You can mail it to the Woodwind Brasswind and they can do it. At least they won't jack you.
800-348-5003 (I don't work for them at all)
Post Edited (2004-08-29 12:48)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-08-29 12:44
Oops - was wrong
Vito brand new
$300
http://www.wwbw.com/Vito-7212-Bb-Clarinet-i70397.music
The repad job of $150 MAX would be for a Plastic Clarinet. They aren't worth more than $75-100 usually anyway when they are used, so you are putting in most all of it's worth when you do a pad job.
In Phila. - done by a Clarinet Expert (Beverly Hawkins - protege of Jacobi) a repad for a Plastic Clarinet was $150 recently for a student of mine.
Post Edited (2004-08-29 12:48)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-08-29 15:21
ron b wrote:
> He 'confirmed' that the horn needed one pad, a minor
> adjustment, and a neck cork... $18.00
Here in the Detroit metro area a fair price would be closer to $30, just because it's not whereever you are.
Which is why discussing prices on the Internet is so dangerous ... what would be essentially "gouging" in one area would be perfectly fine in another. Try visiting a few repair places in your area (if you can) to make sure that you didn't find the pathological case, and if there's only one repair person in the general area and they are charging reasonable rates (even if they might be a bit higher than you might see in other places) - use them or rue their disappearance.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2004-08-29 16:39
I'll second the recommendation that you at least call Marks' Music in Hermitage, Pa. They are very knowledgable and nice folks. (I grew up taking lessons in their old store when Carl's dad ran it. I can walk to the new store from Mom's house.) They have an 800 number so you should be able to talk to them about what you may need done and what it may cost before you make a trip. For a full overhaul on instruments such as yours, they may also ship instruments out. Their website is:
http://www.marksmusic.com/
According to the website, Carl specializes in Buffets. I don't know whether he works on/sells other makes. It's worth a call, however, because he may be able to recommend a repair shop to you -- perhaps one closer to your home.
IMO, $250 is too much to spend in repairs on an old plastic clarinet. If you look around, you should be able to find a full repad for $100-$150. An alternative to the Penn State option, particularly if they have most of their work done near Philadelphia, would be to try to find out where Pittsburgh schools send their band instruments for repair. There's probably a big repair shop somewhere in the area.
It sounds like your daughters are just starting out. Remember that you aren't just giving them clarinets, you're giving them a gift of music that could last the rest of their lives. My advice would be to give them the best chance of success you can afford. An instrument with problems, even minor ones, can be very discouraging. Also, problems that aren't apparent to an experienced player may be critical to a beginner. If the local music store owner is honest and competent and your two older clarinets really are in rough enough shape to need a full repad, they probably also need a good cleaning and new cork and may not be worth fixing up. In that case, your best bet might be to sell them, perhaps on eBay, and start over with good new student clarinets from one of the mail-order stores (or Marks' Music, which will probably be fairly competitive). If you feel that the instruments aren't as bad as the store owner is making them out to be, then you should seek a second opinion on the work that needs done.
If you do end up buying new instruments, make sure you give them a thorough test. Even new instruments can have problems (but they are usually easy to fix).
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Dan1937
Date: 2004-08-29 21:01
Although it's not right in your backyard, you might try e-mailing Lee Lachman at
llwws@abs.net . Lee is a fine repair tech, and a former lead alto player in the Airmen of Note. He recently did a complete repad and regulation on my alto sax for $280, and it plays like a dream.
He's located in College Park, MD, and you could ship him the clarinets after he gives you a ballpark estimate.
Good luck!
Dan
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2004-08-29 22:17
Jack K. sez, re Carl Marks: "Carl specializes in Buffets. I don't know whether he works on/sells other makes."
As far as I know, he does not SELL other makes (at least, not new), but he will work on anything. He cleaned up & adjusted my used Opus, after I was referred to him by the LeBlanc area rep!!
His shop is in an old house, and it's very homey-funky. Definitely an old-fashioned "community" kind of place. Always lots of people there, buying things, hanging out, having lessons, fantasizing about buying things . . . He also sells guitars, btw, and all sorts of musical accessories. I would have liked to have had more time to hang around, but it's a 2 1/2 hour drive from my house, so I had to get back on the road pretty promptly both times I was there.
But Carl is also very good about dealing with things long-distance. He returns phone calls, and is willing to discuss details with you. He's kind of like your friendly local repair guy who happens to have gotten wider exposure.
Susan
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Author: JoeMich
Date: 2004-08-29 23:13
k-squared:
I recently had a complete restoration done on a 'vintage' Selmer by one of the board sponsers for little more than the price you were quoted for a repad. The work was completed in a timely manner and done to my complete satisfaction. Little 'extra' details were given attention and included in the original quote.
Click the "Services" link and go to John Butlers site, or use the link below. Contact him for an honest quote.
<www.cork-and-pad.woodwind.org/>
Joe ...........
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Author: Bob Schwab
Date: 2004-08-30 02:12
Kathy
I had an old Boosey & Hawkes Edgware clarinet totally rebuilt, keys removed and polished, pads replaced, recork, wood stained, and who knows what else for about $185 from a place in the Buffalo, NY area called J&E Instrument Service. He's at 8030 Roll Rd. Amherst, NY 14051. Phone number (716) 688-0013.
I was very happy with the work he did. If the Buffalo area isn't too far I would highly recommend that you consider this guy. He has a good reputation in the area.
If you have any questions please feel free to drop me a line.
Bob Schwab
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Author: k_squared
Date: 2004-08-30 02:30
Thank you all for the wonderful advice. I'm going to check with the band directors/music teachers first because they are part of a tight-knit group of local musicians, and they may know someone who does repairs. I just realized yesterday that one of their friends/music partners teaches music at a local satellite campus of Penn State. He plays a variety of instruments and may be my best bet to have the repairs done locally. If that doesn't work out, I'll start contacting the suggested/recommended repair persons mentioned in this thread, with Carl Marks being first on the list. I'm picking up the clarinets tomorrow, so I'll get more info from the shop owner regarding his thoughts about the repad.
The 40 looks a little more "used" than the Resotone, which actually looks brand new except for the pads. The 40 also came with a Harrison Ligature and a good mouthpiece (R45), which are probably worth more than what I paid for the clarinet! I think it will be worth it to have both repadded, but I'm definitely not going to pay $250 without getting some second and third opinions/quotes regarding the work.
thanks!
kathy
k_squared@yahoo.com
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-08-30 15:17
Aha....a Harrison ligature!!! Must be worth $25 at least.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-08-30 19:05
BobD,
Worth much more than $25. Even more for a personally selected Harrison.
HRL
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-08-31 14:27
Someday Harrison ligatures will be commanding outrageous, Kaspar-like prices on eBay and elsewhere. You have been warned!
Not sure what this has to do with the original topic. Perhaps a digression has occurred? I shall call the Digression Police immediately and report this incident.
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Author: k_squared
Date: 2004-08-31 17:51
Author: BobD said: "Aha....a Harrison ligature!!! Must be worth $25 at least."
I only paid $38 for the Vito 40.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-08-31 18:09
And the 'average' Kaspar mouthpiece (regardless of condition) on eBay sells for more than I've paid for ANY Bb, Eb or A soprano clarinet I own (including a near-mint full-Boehm Kohlert). What constitutes 'value' to any given person is a very subjective and fickle thing.
High-quality goods or services should cost somewhat more -- that's only fair and right. But at some point the cost is no longer commensurate with the quality -- at that point you (the consumer) are either paying for intangibles such as 'prestige', or you are being ripped off. If you paid somebody $250 US or the equivalent to repad a student clarinet, even if you're completely satisfied with the quality of the job, in my opinion you got ripped off.
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Author: sbbishop
Date: 2004-08-31 18:40
Won't do any good. The Digression Police are out of the office digressing.
Post Edited (2004-08-31 18:40)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-08-31 19:06
Most Student Clarinet's aren't even worth $250!
A repad shouldn't cost more than $150 and that is steep for it.
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