 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2004-08-25 03:07
I'm currently compiling a list of suggestions for beginner mouthpieces. I'm wondering what you all would suggest. The price range I would be most interested in is the under $45 range. I know that there are some wonderful mouthpieces out there for more than that, but many of my parents aren't willing to put in much more than ~$30 for a mouthpiece. I teach Beginning (5th) and 2nd Year (6th) band. I'll still take recommendations for the more expensive mouthpieces to pass onto my schools I feed into.
The suggestions I already give my students are:
Pyne Polycrystal
Hite Premier
Vandoren M15
Vandoren 5RV
Hite Artist
Vandoren B45
I DO realize that most of these mouthpieces sell for ~$65
I'm looking to expand the list in a less expensive direction.
Thanks!
-pat
ps - An interesting side note regarding the "Everyone use a B45" thread. In the past year a Vandoren rep came out to the area and gave a clinic on reeds and mouthpieces that they manufacture. He stated that the B45 is a horrible mouthpiece to start on and the M15 would be a much better choice.
I'd post this over there, but it doesn't really apply to that thread.
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Author: Bellflare
Date: 2004-08-25 03:14
He said M15?? really?
gee....and what reeds?
rationale??
Post Edited (2004-08-25 03:14)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-08-25 03:38
Fobes Debut
Hite Premier
They are 2 proven mouthpieces, easily affordable, consistant, reed friendly, and with well thought out facings.
Students can safely use either all through high school with excellent results.
The good news: Each sells for less than half the price of a single Vandoren mouthpiece.
Another excellent choice for students would be the Gennusa student mouthpiece - specifically the GE*. It sells for about $45 and the facings are very silmilar to the more expensive Gennusa models, but on a plastic blank.
BTW - The Gennusa GE*S was selected to be the mouthpiece that is included in the new Forte student clarinet....GBK
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2004-08-25 03:51
Bellflare - He was against the B45 because the tip opening, in his opinion, was way too large. Control was also a concern. His reed suggestion was a 2.5 Vandoren or equivalent for beginners. I do stress the "or equivalent" part. He did not say "only 2.5 Vandoren reeds," but he did say he preferred Vandoren reeds...
GBK - Already got the Hite, thanks for the Fobes Debut suggestion.
-pat
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-08-25 03:57
pzaur wrote:
> GBK - Already got the Hite, thanks for the Fobes Debut
> suggestion.
I just updated and added to my original post - More information for you....GBK
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2004-08-25 04:13
I'd highly recommend Brad Behn's student line.
www.clarinetmouthpiece.com
He also has a great policy of taking them as a trade toward a higher line later on. He'll credit the current retail cost of the student mpc toward the purchase of a "higher end" model. Brad does GREAT work and I highly recommend him.
Michael
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2004-08-25 12:38
I wouldn't include the Vandoren M15 on that list. I believe it would be too difficult to get a consistent sound with this mouthpiece.
The Hite Premier is a very nice, inexpensive mpc.
MOO,
Matt
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Author: William
Date: 2004-08-25 14:37
For a cheap clarinet mouthpiece that always seemed to work well with my middle schoolers, the Yamaha 4C (I think thats the right number) was my choice. Always played easily and was consistant for the money.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-08-25 14:54
I also highly recommend the Fobes Debut
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Author: bobber
Date: 2004-08-25 17:05
I'm newly back to playing clarinet as a hobby after a 30 year break. I have used the B45 and I've found it works pretty well. Since I'm trying to learn to play Jazz I bought the 5JB and I can work with it, but it’s a real pain right now. I've put it aside until I get some level of skill back with the instrument.
Bobber
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2004-08-25 23:10
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll add them to my list.
A few more questions:
Where are some other places I can find the Gennusa mtpc at? I found Gennusa mouthpieces at intlmusicsuppliers.com for $64 and at WWBW for $68. Is this the correct price for the aforementioned Gennusa mouthpieces? (I'm also adding approximate prices to the list I am creating because some local music stores like to inflate the prices drastically.)
Matt, why do you believe that the M15 would be too difficult to get a consistent sound with it?
-pat
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Author: george
Date: 2004-08-25 23:36
Precisely what makes a mouthpiece a "beginner's" mouthpiece? How do they differ in design and construction from "other" mouthpieces?
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2004-08-26 04:00
There isn't anyone thing or things that determines what a beginner mtpc is. I'm speaking mainly of mtpcs that come with entry level instruments or are usually made of plastic. Cost also tends to be much less than the professional line of mtpcs. It seems that the design for some of the cheaper mtpcs is such that they emphasize playing in the lower register and then forget that the clarinet extends passed a 3rd line Bb. I can never give accurate reasons as to why the design is different or how it is different, but there is a difference between what many of the large manufacturers toss in the case for their entry instruments and what is put in their pro-line instruments. I simply don't have a grasp on mtpc design to go beyond what has been said above.
I can give examples of student responses who have played on the mtpc that they are given with their rental and then the Pyne Polycrystal that I let students try:
1. A big smile after they learn it can be much easier to play above the break.
(finger placement is considered a non-issue at this point)
2. "Why don't they just give us something like this to begin with."
3. "Where can I get one."
They notice the difference but can't always tell you what it is.
Not all students like the Pyne better. Some still prefer their current mouthpiece. Many do notice a differenece and ask for it to use during class.
I need to give them a larger taste of what's out there earlier in their musical journey. I also want to be able to say "You've outgrown your current mtpc, here are some choices that you might consider and can use for many more years than what you are currently playing on."
I don't want to break the bank, but I want to have options that parents will actually consider when cost is a factor.
GBk - Thanks for the site. Sad to hear of the loss to the profession and his friends and family, but glad that he was able to pass on his knowledge and expertise.
-pat
It is so much more difficult to type in a response than it is to have an actual conversation...ho-hum...as Brahms 4 ends when it was started as the same time as this post.
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Author: John_May
Date: 2004-08-26 05:06
One more heavy endorsement for the Fobes Debut... in my opinion, easily the best quality low-price mouthpiece I've ever played. Beginners will not be disappointed. Is he still giving out free ones to band directors for tests?
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2004-08-26 05:21
I hope so! There are a couple of companies that I'm going to be contacting for possible donations. Pyne donated a PolyCrystal to me last year and my students have been greatful ever since!
-pat
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2004-08-26 17:30
George,
Most mouthpieces specifically targeted for beginners are designed to have relatively light resistance so that a beginner can play them fairly easily with a moderately light reed. This means they are usually characterized by a close to medium close tip and a medium to medium long to long facing. They are usually made of some sort of plastic, rather than hard rubber, to keep their cost down. -- lower initial investment, lower replacement cost if damaged.
Whether designed as "student" models or not, many good teachers believe that mouthpieces with relatively low resistance are a better choice for beginners. The effort needed to overcome the resistance of an open, resistant mouthpiece like the B45 is often so great that the student gives up thinking s/he will never be able to play the instrument. That's why many teachers consider the 5RV, which is probably Vandoren's least resistant mouthpiece, a better choice than the B45.
My personal recommendations are the Hite Premier and the Fobes Debut. Some of the other "student" mouthpieces (Behn, Pyne, Gennusa) may be every bit as good but I find it hard to believe they are any better and they generally cost more. FWIW, I find the Fobes just slightly more resistant than the Hite so my personal recommendations are: Hite for a child beginner, Fobes for an adult beginner or a child who has been playing for a little while.
Clark Fobes will send a free "review" copy of his Debut to any band director or private teacher. Details are at his website. You can find a link on the Sponsor's page.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2004-08-26 23:37
To second George:
Thanks Jack.
I always learn something new here.
-pat
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2004-08-27 12:08
Pat:
The reason I think the M15 is not a good beginners mpc is because of the tip opening. It seems reasonable to think that a very small tip opening would be easier to play as the vibrations are easy to start. What I've found with this mpc though is that it's very hard to keep the vibrations going. It's really easy to pinch off and I believe that's because of the miniscule tip opening. My suspicions are that a very small tip opening in concert with a long lay is probably difficult to control. I also suspect that a very small tip opening with shorter lay is probably a good combination. Does any one here want to weigh in on this?
I also found that I could never find a reed that I was happy with while using this mpc. I tried the gamut of VD traditionals in the strengths recommended, and adjusted some too stiff reeds down to try to make it work. I also used my tried & true Mitchell Lurie's in various flavors. I could never find one reed that would work. If it worked today, it wouldn't work tomorrow. Very frustrating. BTW, with my Yamaha 4CM mpc I've used ML 4.5s consistently now for about 3 years. I've experimented up & down and with different brands but always come back to this. My B45 gets paired up with ML 4.0s. This M15 is the only mpc that I have that I could not find a good combination for, and I tried long and hard - trust me.
I've yet to play one unfortunately, but I believe the 5RV or or 5RV Lyre would make a great mpc for beginner or expert. Take that for what it's worth but based on previous comments on this BB I think that would be true. I just haven't gotten around to going to the music store to sit down & try a bunch out.
MOO,
Matt
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-08-27 12:37
Concentrating on the mp as a single variable is a frustrating exercise. One must consider the reed, barrel, horn combination as well as one's physical condition. When you do find the mp that "works" under all conditions you are fortunate. I've tried all the above mentioned and the 5RVLyre and Pyne Polycrystal work for me anytime with any combination of the other variables mentioned. The B45 works sometimes as does the M15. Go figure.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2004-08-27 15:16
Some of the posters to this board have also recommended the Yamaha 4C as a good beginner mouthpiece. It is considered one of the few instances where the beginner instrument (Yamaha) actually comes with a decent mouthpiece.
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2004-08-28 01:35
Question on this topic - when you do in to try out mouthpieces, as I plan to do shortly, do you bring in a variety of ligatures and reeds? Or do you use the reed/lig combination that you are currently using? It seems that, with all the variables needing to be considered, you really shouldn't be changing just one.
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Author: kdennyclarinet
Date: 2004-08-28 05:15
Keep in mind that different mouthpieces will also work differently on each clarinet. Some mouthpieces are better suited for or better matched to certain makes/models. Just figured I would throw in that variable too!
K. Denny
PS. I second the suggestion on the Brad Behn mouthpieces. Not only does he offer the trade in for an upgrade, but for an additonal $5, he offers an unlimited lifetime warranty... no questions asked (on beginning model only).
BME, MM, DMA
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