 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: extraspecialk
Date: 2004-08-13 18:30
i have finally gotten so i can play through my major scales with almost no mistakes, but i am not really sure where to start with minor scales. what i mean is i already know how to construct a minor scale, but i need a routine to help me practice it. should i play the major and then the minor? should i just try to play through the minors separately? should i try adding the melodic and harmonic minors yet or just try to get through natural minors first? i dont have a private teacher at the moment, and that is why i am unsure.
thanx-
sara
Post Edited (2004-08-13 21:22)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-08-13 18:52
1. Play the first page of Klose - Part II (Major/Minor scales)
2. Then, practice from Baermann III (Hite edition) for sequential exercises of major and minor scales.
3. Never take them off your music stand.
4. Lather, rinse, repeat ...GBK
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2004-08-13 19:40
I agree. The "Klose Scale Page" (as it's called around here) is a great way to practice them. Before doing the Klose page, however, I would go through all the scales to make sure you understand them and can play them a little bit. The Klose Page is a great routine for practicing the scales, but because of the way it's written (no key signatures, with accidentals only marked in one octave) it can be very frustrating to work through if the melodic minors aren't already somewhat under your fingers. When I introduce this page to my students, we usually go one or two keys at a time, making sure they understand the form of the minor scale (raised 6/7 up, yada yada yada) and aren't just trying to blinding work through them by just reading the notes. Once you understand the scales and are somewhat comfortable with them, the Klose is great. Next, add the Thirds and the Arpeggios, which contain melodic minors as well.
DH
theclarinetist@yahoo.com
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-08-13 20:00
Becoming a good player is like an old-fashioned apprenticeship. The first thing you do is make your own tools. For musicians, this means learning the elements (at least of tonal music) so thoroughly that you do them without having to think. That is, you practice all possible scales and arpeggio patterns until you can recognize them when you see them in the muscial context, start them going and let your fingers play them while you look ahead to recognize the next pattern.
This can't learn to do this overnight, and you'll only get bored and frustrated if you try. You take one exercise and spend your best time on it -- let's say 10 minutes of total concentration at the beginning of each practice session.
Suppose you want to learn the A minor scale. Open Baermann Part 3 to the A minor page, set your metronome at 60 and play the first exercise, one note per beat, all the way through the scale, up and down.
Clear your mind and think about the next note and what you do to get there. Even in the simple keys, there are difficult changes. It's easy to get from A to B, but getting from F# to G# is a little harder, and going over the break from A to B is harder still. Your object is to get each change perfectly prepared, and then do it without any hesitation or unevenness. Visualize what you're going to do before you do it.
Start as slow as you need to in order to do it perfectly. (When I started on the F# Major page, I had to set the metronome to 40.) If you go any faster, what you're doing is practicing mistakes.
Never do this so much that you lose concentration. Particuarly when you're getting started, 10 minutes is plenty, and if you can only do one minute, then stop there. Your physical and mental endurance will build up soon.
When you finish this work, reward yourself by playing one of your favorite songs. It doesn't have to be difficult -- just beautiful, or fun, or funny.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2004-08-13 23:35
u could learn how a minor scale is formed, get into a little basic theory, and from that u can figure them all out, it helped me remember them much easier than justt reading them off a page.
take C major, in order to play its parallel key( someone correct my if my terms are wrong), which is c minor, u must lower the 3rd, 6th, and 7th degrees(the notes) of that scale by a half step. So it would start out on C, then to D, then to Eb, then to F, then to G, then to Ab, then the next note determines whether this is a harmonic or natural minor scale. In the natural minor scale, the next note would be B Flat. In the harmonic minor scale the next note would be B Natural. Then to C, and the same thing one or ,if ur daring, 2 more octaves up. Then the same thing back down.
Melodic minor is a bit more tricky. Its not the same going down as it is coming up. In melodic minor, u only lower only the 3rd note. The 6th and 7th stay the same as it was in the major form of the scale. For example, in c melodic minor, C....D......Eb.....F.......G......A.......B......C. Then, descending, its the same as natural minor. C.......Bb.........Ab........G.....F.....Eb.....D......C.
An easier way to find the natural minor of a scale is to take the key signature of the scale in which the tonic is a minor 3rd above that scales tonic. A minor third is 3 half steps above the original note. For example, a minor third above C is Eb. Notice how c minor and Eb major both have 3 flats, and those flated notes are the same ones. This makes c minor Eb's relative minor scale. Another example, and i suppose and easier one is a minor. A natural minor ahs no flats or sharps. Its relative major, which is a minor third above, is C major. So, "a" natural minor has the same key as C major, which is no flats or sharps.
Also...this is getting long for me......u can form the harmonic and melodic minor scales from the natural minor. Its an inverted and probably better way than i explained before. Take, once again, c Natural Minor. 3 Flats, the same flats as Eb minor. To from the harmonic minor scale from the natural minor scale, just simply raise the 7th note by a half step. To form the melodic minor.....just raise the 6th and the 7th of the natural minor scale. Hehe, now that i write that out, that wouldve been much easier to explain.
It might take a while to let all those rules sink in, but i think it's much easier to understand how a natural minor scale works than to just read them off a page. After u understand them, its much easier to play all of them by memory. And of course after u do that enough times its just more muscle memory.
BTW, im a senior in highschool who learned this by taking AP Music Theory, which if i hadn't, my private teacher would have taught me how it works. So anyone who sees anything im saying incorrectly, please please tell me, b/c I'd hate to go on with incorrect information. I haven't had to think about this stuff ina while so what i play might not be exactly what i just typed out here.
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2004-08-13 23:37
lol, i just re read some of the posts, and what i said was the "(yada yada)" part of TheClarinetist's post.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-08-13 23:40
Ken,
May I print out your response and use it when teaching? I always tell my students to practice slowly, but I think I don't communicate the WHY as effectively as you do...
Katrina
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Author: extraspecialk
Date: 2004-08-14 00:04
k, just to clarify: i know how to *form* a minor scale in all three ways - all i need is a routine in which to practice them. for instance, i practice my majors by going around the circle of fifths. simple, right? well, i am not sure how to add minors into my routine... should i play the major and then the relative minor? or should i play my majors and then my minors? should i try to incoorporate the melodic minor scales as well as the harmonic into my routine or just stick to the natural minors? i just need to know if anyone else has a specific routine to practice them, and if so, what. i know it sounds trivial, but its pretty important to me as i have nothing else to practice.
thanx anyways to all that replied
-sara
Post Edited (2004-08-14 00:06)
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Author: SGTClarinet_7
Date: 2004-08-14 04:44
I used to go by Circle of Fifths and Circle of Fourths, now I just start at low E and work my way up cromatically until I get all the way up. I do this on major scales, then I go to Natural Minor scales. Once I finish the same on the natural minors, I go to Harmonic Minor scales, etc. Also, I just play the scales, no arpeggios. When I complete them all, THEN I go back and use the same formula on arpeggios. Time consuming yes, but it keeps them under my fingers and helps to not only warm up the clarinet but warm up my fingers as well.
Matthew
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Author: Francesca
Date: 2004-08-14 05:46
Given my druthers, I would learn the minor scale in terms of its relative major. You'll be amazed by how much your fingers remember (and sometimes won't). That being said, I can't emphasize enough have a VARIED scale practice routine. You may be learning the scales more in relation to each other than the scale itself. For example, if you always go through your circle of fifths and start on C major, see how well you play when you start on E. You may find that you aren't playing the scales too well because you've learned them all as one pattern as opposed to 15 separate scales.
That being said, here are a few of my favorite ways to practice scales and patterns:
1. Parallel everything- major scale/arpeggios, whole tone, minor scales/arpeggios, major/minor in thirds, major/minor in fourths, dominant 7 arpeggios, fully diminished 7th arpeggios all with the same tonic before moving on. I usually go through the circle of fifths.
2. Relative everything- major scale/arpeggios, whole tone using tonic of both major and its relative, relative minor scale/arpeggios, thirds, fourths, etc... basically bouncing back and forth between the two scales. I usually go through the circle of fourths on this one.
3. Pattern by pattern- all majors, but changing the order in which their played (fifths, fourths, chromatically, tritones/fifths, etc...) all minors, all thirds, all fourths, etc...
4. Luck of the draw- I literally have a hat filled with all the scales and patterns I need to play. This random order is the most difficult for me, but it has forced me to really know my scales.
There are other variants as well. Don't always start from the bottom and go up. Try starting at the top and going down, or from the middle and expanding from there. Also, use different articulations and rhythms. One exercise I like is to play the scales in the style of different music eras. (Baroque is very rigid, Romantic with rubato, for example) As you can tell, my teachers are real sticklers for scales, and so am I. Enjoy the learning process and good luck!
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-08-14 06:38
I'm a little concerned about playing the major scales with ALMOST no mistakes. It's important to get that 'almost' out of there, and perfect those scales. Ken has provided a very good approach. Let me suggest yet another.
Any scale or mode--major, minor or otherwise--can be learned well by building the scale element by element. 1-2-1, 1-2-3-2-1, 1-2-3-4-3-2-1, etc. one octave a a time, AS SLOW AS IT TAKES. This does a couple of things that I really like.
1 - Keeps mistakes from getting lost in context. If your new note sounds wrong, find out why before adding other notes.
2 - It forces physical repetition, as you keep playing the old elements while adding new ones one-by-one.
3 - It also keeps you practicing downward as well as upward--something many players fail to do in their practice.
Learning to build the various minor scales is certainly something you should know, but their usefulness is sharply limited unless you learn them PHYSICALLY. Refer to Ken Shaw's post about recognizing and executing standard scales and arpeggios as a unit rather than note-by-note. It takes well-rehearsed motor skills to do this, and you have to rehearse them as motor skills--not as calculations/formulations in your mind. (your conscious mind is already burdened with enough tasks)
Anyway, good luck with it. One minor scale practice routine that I enjoy involves my natural minor scale and its dominant V7-9 arpeggio (executed as a diminished [VIIdim] arpeggio) It's the intro to the song Be-Bop by Dizzy Gillespie. I go up chromatically through the minor keys.
Allen Cole
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-08-14 12:32
Katrina -
You're more than welcome to print out and use any of my postings.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: n_hanson12
Date: 2004-08-14 17:44
I work the circle of fifths. I play all my major scales and then I play my minors... all three forms of one key at a time. That is to say... I play A natural minor, A harmonic minor, A melodic minor. Then I go to D natural minor..... you get the idea. It works well for me. Also, I play them without looking at a piece of music. I think it's better to have them memorized, but maybe that's just me. I'm going to start on arpeggios next...
~Nicki
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Author: chicagoclar
Date: 2004-08-16 05:43
I have my students use the circle of fifths and learn one "key relationship" per week. For instance, the first week is C Major (and apreggio) and all three forms of a minor (and arpeggio) and then I have them do the Schmidt excersizes in each key. For my more advanced students (or those who have finished Schmidt) I have them do Baerman and/or Kroepsch (also in both major and minor). I myslef still concentrate on one or two keys a week and do Klose, Schmidt, Baerman, and Kroepsh as my warm-up. Warning this can take some time, but it's worth it.
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-08-18 06:04
My two cents' worth:
Scales are purely mechanical ... you must firstly play them slowly so you do not learn any mistakes. Knowing exactly what the notes you are playing is not really important (assuming you don't make errors).
You should be able, eventually to just begin on any note and play any of the scales by simply turning playing without thinking. Your fingers need to learn where they need to be at any given time. Mechanical rote learning is really the only way to go ... you do not need any interpretive skills for playing scales and arpeggios.
I personally NEVER let my students learn scales on their own ... I make them play them slowly until they get a mental image of what their hands are doing ... ensuring that no errors are made. This is critical ... unlearning errors is far more difficult than it seems.
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