 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: MusicMom
Date: 2004-08-11 01:13
I am interested to find out the opinions re. a good starting instrument. Child already plays piano and flute. I don't want to start with the junkiest clarinet - as that is discouraging, but we also cannot afford a top-of-the-line model for starting out. Suggestions? Wood vs. plastic? Other considerations I don't know about? I am a string player, so haven't much clue when it comes to woodwinds. thanks for your help.
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-08-11 01:20
Hi ... I'm a viola player who plays clarinet too ... when it comes to a student instrument ... unless you want to expend more money, plastic clarinets work perfectly well for beginners, especially if they get bored and give up after only a few months' playing. (Wooden student models are also available).
Any of the four big brands make good student level instruments, I started life playing a Yamaha plastic one (Buffet, Leblanc and Selmer also make excellent student clarinets) ... it was OK for a couple of years then I purchased my professional instrument.
Eitherway ... a professional level clarinet is a fraction of the cost of my viola (or any profesional level string instrument) as you well possibly know.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2004-08-11 01:42
i start all my beginners on a buffet E-11, vandoren 5Rv-Lyre mouthpiece, Rovner dark ligature, vandoren #2.5 reeds (1 box), moving to vandoren #3 reeds by halloween. i also make them get a silk swab, vito reedguard and a metronome/tuner, and a good quality music stand (manhasset usually).
you can use the buffet mouthpiece that comes with the horn as a doorstop, or sell it on ebay for $15.
that all totals about $750 or so , new, from WW&BW ; less if you already have a metronome, tuner, and stand.
if they drop out after a year or so, the resale value is over $400 on a 1-2 year old E-11 in good condition.
thats the standard setup in the school district i teach in also - we start about 100 new clarinet students each year. about 1/2 go with the above setup - works well for most beginners.
-paul
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: glin
Date: 2004-08-11 01:50
I think for a beginner, student plastic makes sense to me. Durable and affordable. Should last say 4th - 8th grade. Plus, it could be used as a marching band horn, if the student decides to continue thru high school. As they mature and progess to an advanced level, a professional wood clarinet from a reputable maker would be good to have.
George Lin
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-08-11 02:09
glin's advice about plastic is good, especially considering marching band scenarios which you North American's seem slightly obsessed about ...
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
Post Edited (2004-08-11 02:09)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-08-11 02:19
diz wrote:
> marching band scenarios which you North American's seem
> slightly obsessed about ...
Not all of us ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ...GBK
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2004-08-11 03:00
I always started people out on Vito horn. The intonation seemed to be better, the finger holes were more suited to smaller hands. However, I never did have much experience with Yamaha student horns. From what I've seen of them, I'd put them up there with the LeBlanc products.
I once found a $25.00 "garage sale" Vito that was among the sweetest horns that I've ever played. Sold it to a poor student; I hope the kid appreciated what she got.
Marching band:
The obsession with marching band is less a function of what the music folks want and more of what the districts expect from their music program. The guys in my group who teach instrumental music are split on the subject. On one hand, they know that it's not very "musical", but on the other hand, they know what the administration wants. The happiest of them is my string bass player, who gets to concentrate on music alone as he is the orchestra instructor at his school.
I have always been grateful that I went through a school system that, while it didn't have an orchestra, was not burdened with a marching band. The district's musical director, who was also half of the high school music program, was dead set against them, so march we did not. Time not spent memorizing drill routines was better spent on musical stuff, and our school system always did better in the various contests and solo competitions.
In Texas, very competition oriented place that it is, marching band is part of every school's drive to excel. This drive put paid to my son's foray into music tout suite.
My son got most of the skills needed for bassooning down pretty well in three years of play and lessons (and even made a dozen reeds of his own in the process). However, when he advanced to the high school level (freshman year, first of four for you folks across the pond), he was told the following:
o You will learn to play tuba or drums during "marching season", which runs from June through December
o You will be part of twice weekly summer sessions, starting in the aforementioned month of June...lots of "fun" standing around in the south Texas sun in 100° temperatures, learning how to move about in formation.
o If you choose not to participate in the "A" band, we will put you in the "B" band. You'll be sitting in what amounts to a study hall, with half a period of scales and "baby music", and the rest just sitting around.
No orchestra option, and no band worried about performing other than the sacred A group. In effect, instrumental music in Pearland TX consists of a third year of performance (spring semester), with the rest occupied with a semi-harmonic version of close order drill.
The decision was easy enough, especially since Chris was also a superb ice hockey player, who spent three weeks each summer up in Quebec City at a juniors level hockey camp (he later taught there for two years). When we told the school that he was already contracted for the hockey activity, they told us that he could not be in the A band since he would miss all of the compulsory sessions during the summer.
We completely pulled him from the program after that nonsense. He still plays bassoon now and then (mostly when I do musicals where they're looking for a fag player), and I picked up a secondhand horn just to have one around. You can still play a horn while not part of a "program", after all...
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Author: MusicMom
Date: 2004-08-11 04:09
All of the advice has been great. I will see if the E-11 is available locally here in British Columbia. I have only heard about the Yamaha YCL 250 so far, and wanted other ideas and advice. Thanks again!
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2004-08-11 04:27
I agree that if you're looking for a new horn the E-11 is a very nice clarinet for the money. You can find them used on Ebay also. I bought a Vito Resotone on Ebay for $42, and it does very well. Nice tone and key action. I finally had to have it repadded and overhauled for $200, and now it's in great shape.
I subsequently decided I wanted a wooden horn, so I bought a Leblanc Noblet on ebay and like it very much also. To be honest though, for a beginning student I would stick with plastic, and truly, there isn't really that much difference in the tone. The plastic is a bit lighter also.
Leonard
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Author: kdennyclarinet
Date: 2004-08-11 06:31
As a band director and clarinetist teaching in a district where many poor children live, I had to learn quick that not all students will be able to afford the "ideal setup" from the beginning (or maybe ever). I believe that the four "big" names carry instruments with reputable quality, reliability, and affordability (Buffet, Leblanc--makes Vito, Yamaha, and Selmer--makes Bundy). I get so tired of the misconception that a wood instrument is better than a plastic instrument. So, instead of buying a new plastic instrument in great shape, some parents will buy an old wood instrument in horrible shape only because of this myth. My suggestion is that most, if not all, beginners should be on a plastic instrument that is in tip-top playing condition. There is nothing worse than trying to learn how to play on an instrument that is not functioning properly. The first year is so unbelievably critical in a child's future success. Please provide the best tool possible in order for your child to succeed.
Having the plastic clarinet provides several benefits:
--overall durability... they can really take a beating and be just fine
--lighter in weight than most wood instruments
--temperature and humidity levels do not effect the body of the instrument nearly as much as a wood instrument
--generally, each note blows in a more "set" manner whereas intermediate and professional wood instruments provide more flexibility. This helps to direct students to the correct "center" of each note. The need for flexibility comes later (high school and beyond) as students become more mature musicians and become more sensitive to tuning issues.
--when the student "steps up" to an intermediate or pro instrument (generally high school students do this once they've shown a committment to the study of music), the plastic clarinet easily becomes the marching band clarinet. Also, many parents use the "step up" as a motivator. Reward them with their success and/or committment to music!
When you boil it all down....
I suggest to buy a new plastic instrument or used plastic instrument in great shape. Make the extra investment in getting a quality mouthpiece. The overall sound of the clarinet is incredibly related to the mouthpiece, reed, and ligature combination. Don't "skimp" out in this department.
Feel free to email me if you want more specific brands that I recommend or if you have any other questions. I'd be glad to help... as everyone else on here is as well. You can also find a great deal of information about mouthpieces, reeds, and ligatures by searching the archives.
K. Denny
P.S. GBK also mentioned the Forte clarinets. I suggest checking in to these as well as the Ridenour clarinets. These two makers are very "in tune" with the CURRENT needs of student clarinetists.
BME, MM, DMA
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-08-11 13:37
MusicMom,
IMO it would be prudent to rent an instrument for the first year, but buy a decent mouthpiece. It may be possible to apply some of the rental cost to the purchase price if you decide later to buy the clarinet.
Plastic is the best choice for a beginner. It places less of a maintenance burden (making sure joints are dried and oiling to prevent cracking) on the beginner. Most of my recent experience is with Yamaha: the school where I volunteer uses them and they can usually survive a year of playing by 11 to 13 year olds with no major problems. The bridge key cork is the most common problem, since it is easily damaged by careless assembly of the instrument by the student, but the same problem would occur with any other brand.
For good advice on mouthpieces and many other topics, Professor Friedland's site is a good place to visit: http://clarinet.cc/
Regards,
Hans
Post Edited (2004-08-11 13:40)
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Author: jmsa
Date: 2004-08-11 15:09
I believe that the Ridenour is made from non-alloy rubber and not from plastic.
jmsa
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-08-11 16:04
As a technician and player I encounter large numbers of Yamaha student clarinets and would not hesitate to recommend them.
However almost all those I have seen have been made entirely in Japan. It is quite conceivable that there is 'different' USA input in those sold in USA. I have no idea for Canada.
Recently here in NZ the YCL250 model superceded the prior model. On it is written, "Made in Indonesia". Time will tell whether I am as impressed with this model.
If I were looking for a student instrument now, I would also take a serious look at the "Forte" brand. http://www.forteclarinet.com/
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2004-08-11 20:46
Just had to add my two cents. As a music teacher myself, I can tell you what a great way that is to unequivocally kill any musical interest, ability or vocation. Time to move to another town. There are other performing opportunities, even if your son is initially resistant. Summer college programs, shows, etc. Most groups would think they had died and gone to heaven to have a bassoon player. This is why marching band programs have such a bad rap. Sue
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2004-08-11 21:35
Sue, that's what we did. Since he quit formal school stuff for music, he's played in three musicals (two of them at schools that didn't have a bassoonist), and he's puttered around on sax with my musical group now and then when we're a hand or two short. (Go to www.sotsdo.com for an overview, as well as a photo of the lad holding my old Mark VI tenor...he was a place filler in the photograph that evening.)
Moving to somewhere with a better music program isn't a serious option in these days of two careers. (And it's not an option at all in the Houston area...they are all marching band mad.) While I enjoy music to the hilt, I'd no more base a housing decision on it than I would upon the location of my favorite baseball team. And, as I continue to say, you don't have to go to school/have a degree to enjoy musical performance. All you need to do is to want to participate and have the time to do it (and have the horn, of course...a particular problem in the case of bassoon playing for most, but not for us).
For many years (about sixteen), ALL of my playing was with musical theater groups. Three or four shows a year kept my skills up on all horns, made a decent (if not top drawer) flute player out of me, and led to a lot of other opportunities as well. My son has now taken the same route, still enjoys playing when he can, but never had to negotiate a single foot of marching at any time during the process AND got to play junior level hockey for two seasons...win/win in my eyes.
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