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 Buffet vs. Moennig Barrels
Author: Elise W. (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   2004-08-07 16:48

Could anyone explain the difference between a regular Buffet R13 67mm barrel and a 67mm Moennig barrel? Is it worth buying a Moennig and what are the advantages?

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 Re: Buffet vs. Moennig Barrels
Author: GBK (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   2004-08-07 16:54

The Moennig barrel has a reverse taper:

http://www.jdhite.com/mouthpieces/shop1.htm ...GBK

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 Re: Buffet vs. Moennig Barrels
Author: Don Berger (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date:   2004-08-07 20:38

GBK, does reverse-taper mean "slightly larger at the top [mp] than at the bottom {U J]" . Ive tried both and via my poor ears couldn;t tell any diff ! Don

Thanx, Mark, Don

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 Re: Buffet vs. Moennig Barrels
Author: GBK (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   2004-08-08 04:47

Don Berger wrote:

> GBK, does reverse-taper mean "slightly larger at the top [mp]
> than at the bottom {U J]" .


Yes...GBK

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 Re: Buffet vs. Moennig Barrels
Author: Ken Shaw (65.217.153.---)
Date:   2004-08-09 14:24

GBK -

The Moennig barrels provided by Buffet, with the Buffet logo, have, I believe, a continuous reverse taper from top to bottom. I think the Buffet Chadash barrels are the same design, with a different taper. I'll be happy to be corrected.

The Hite page is not specific, but he appears to say that Moennig's own barrels had the same, continuous taper, which was different from those made by Buffet.

The barrels I use have a reverse taper at both the top and the bottom, with the narrowest part in the middle. The angle of these tapers, and the point at which they meet, are unique to each barrel length, barrel material, mouthpiece, instrument and player. The shorter the barrel, the more critical the adjustment. The process of adjustment involves the maker working with the player to find the particular combination that works best. The difference between these barrels and cylindrical ones, or Buffet Moennig or Chadash tapered ones, is not subtle.

I'd be interested in whether other barrel makers have tried non-uniform tapers.

Best regards.

Ken Shaw

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 Re: Buffet vs. Moennig Barrels
Author: GBK (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   2004-08-09 15:50

Ken -

The Moennig and Chadash barrels both employ a reverse taper. I suspect that their top and bottom measurements are very similar.

The difference between the two types of barrels is that the Chadash barrel uses a more gradual taper from top to bottom.

My guess is that the Chadash barrel has a very small cylindrical section in the middle of the barrel before it completes the reverse taper.

Having watched Guy bore a few barrels for me in his shop, it is definitely a two step reaming process...GBK

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 Re: Buffet vs. Moennig Barrels
Author: D Dow (---.nbnet.nb.ca)
Date:   2004-08-09 16:24

In conversation with Mr. Hite I asked a good deal about his thoughts on the Reverse taper Moemmig barrel and he said they had a definite reverse taper...the characteristics this gives is it tends to send a wave form throught the upper joint of the clarinet which lowers the pitch througout the entire scale.

As to technical matters I am sure others have written extensively...I have used the Moennig Barrels on both Selmer and Buffets with David Hite pieces in orchestra and found they have excellent pitch and tonal characteristics...

however, the player has to also find the right barrel for the instrument he or she is playing...this means maybe trying a couple for no one person is the same as the other so a personal choice means finding a barrel that allows for nice tuning with excellent tone and control...

as a matter of conjecture I have always wondered why so many players seem mystified by the concept of a Mooenig barrel...Selmer and Buffet are primarily what Moennig designed for as to how well they adapt to Yamaha and Leblanc others may want to step forward....they may not work so well with certain bore configurations is definite...! Primarily the Moennig firm made for Selmer and Buffet players....

The main aspect that I like about Moennig barrels is the response and the superb 12ths throughout the entire compass...this is no easy matter in an instrument with a bore so unstable as the clarinet.

As to the success others have had with Moennig barrels the popularity of them is evident...

The American clarinet school is noted for it's refinement of tuning and wonderful ease of sound production...no doubt in part due to the like of the Moennig barrel...

David Hite was very helpful with me about his knowledge of the Moennig barrel...and yes there are people about who can readjust older Moennig barrels to bring them to the original measurements!

As to sound production they tend to bring a deep rich lustre to the sound witout sacrificing projection which can be the case with some types of equipment....

as to mouthpieces they really do help a fine mouthpiece act and project the way it should. A number of older school players like Hite, Gigliotti and Gennussa were adament that the Moennig barrel gave to tone a set of properties that tended to stabilize the sound and centre the tone.

David Dow

Post Edited (2004-08-09 16:27)

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 Re: Buffet vs. Moennig Barrels
Author: Ed (---.ct.dialin.ntplx.com)
Date:   2004-08-09 20:18

"...and yes there are people about who can readjust older Moennig barrels to bring them to the original measurements"

Guy Chadash, Albert Alphin, etc (I am sure there are others) will take a barrel and rebore it to the correct dimensions. I have also seen Guy put in a hard rubber inset and then rebore it if the dimensions are too big.

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 Re: Buffet vs. Moennig Barrels
Author: Avie (---.lax.untd.com)
Date:   2004-08-10 20:35

I was told that the pine (spelling?!) barrel is similar to the Chadash and the moennig. Of the three types what barrel would you choose for an R13 that plays sharp in the upper register presently with a 65mm barrel and what would be the advantages?



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 Re: Buffet vs. Moennig Barrels
Author: Grabnerwg (---.client.comcast.net)
Date:   2004-08-10 21:33

Once again, we are oversimplifying.

Let's talk about Moennig-style or Chadash-style barrels. I am sure both of these gentlemen in their careers have made barrels with differeing measdurements. I would be very surprised if they did not, in order to satisfy their customers.

The general information above is correct, as far as it goes.

The Moennig or Chadash style barrel is a has a reverse taper bore. What is not generally recognized is that many, if not most barrels in use these days may have a taper.

I have a very fine Buffet barrel, which is at least 30 years old. No other designation on it except Buffet , made in France, B65 (Bb clarinet, 65 mm).
It has a very nice reverse taper. I use it as a model for many of the Bb barrels I use.

Please also remember that there is a BIG difference in Bb and A barrels and seldom can they be interchanged without negative results, the internal measurements, not just length, do differ.

Almost all the clarinet mouthpieces in use today terminate in a 15 mm bore. We simply LIKE the sound they produce. Most of our clarinets start with a 14.65 - 14.76 bore.

Also we like the "POP" in the sound produced by having the barrel terminate in a smaller bore than the opening of the top joint. This is called a "choke" and I understand it changes the standing wave in the clarinet, adding an additional dimension to the sound and response.

Thus, the reverse taper bore barrel was born. It is associated with the late Hans Moennig, but was used before his time as well.

Barrel makers "play" with the shape of the taper to adjust the 12ths in the upper joint.

In a barrel I made recently I modified the taper to an "hourglass" type shape. This is done by reversing the reamer and tapering UP from the bottom. I did this because the throat tones were sharper than I wanted, yet the barrel was the right length.

So...there is no "one" taper. You do what you can to tune the individual clarinet at hand.

Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com

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 Re: Buffet vs. Moennig Barrels
Author: BobD (---.msn.com)
Date:   2004-08-10 21:35

I'll stick my neck out....but a 65mm barrel on an R13 probably should play sharp! It's Pyne, by the way. I have a couple of his plastic barrels and like them. I liken the barrel on a clarinet to the old carburetors cars. Experts could do wonders with a car's performance by adjusting the carb, cleaning it or replacing it. I had a Moennig bbl for some time that didn't seem to do anything for any of my clarinets until I put it on an old Gutowski I was refurbishing where it worked wonders. Yes, there is magic in barrels that few of us understand.

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 Re: Buffet vs. Moennig Barrels
Author: Aussie Nick (---.swiftdsl.com.au)
Date:   2004-08-12 12:33

"The main aspect that I like about Moennig barrels is the response and the superb 12ths throughout the entire compass...this is no easy matter in an instrument with a bore so unstable as the clarinet... "

After reading this thread and relating it to the tuning problems (the 12ths) I have been having with my new clarinets (mainly the Bb) I went into a music store and borrowed two 66mm Moenigg barrels to try. Sure enough, the 12ths in the upper joint became narrower... I could now play the upper clarion B in tune without lipping down alot. As for the sound characteristics I'm not so sure whether I like them or not. My prestige barrel seems to have a slightly sweeter sound, and I think the Moeniggs possibly darker. I will hold on to the Moenigg I preferred out of the 2, and I will compare it to the remaining Moeniggs in the shop. They only have one Chadash which I might be able to try. Would Chadash barrels improve these 12ths as well?
When I put the 66mm Moenigg on my A the pitch was quite good, except for possibly on the upper clarion C being a little under. How important is it to get specific A clarinet barrels? Is it ok to use the Bb one?

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