 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-08-04 18:18
While browsing through the International Double Reed Society archives, I came across this article http://www.idrs.org/Publications/DR/DR15.3/DR15.3.Riordan.html, in which an oboist prevented seasonal change and cracking problems by sealing the bore with Thompson's Water Seal, which was developed for preventing roof leaks.
Aside from possible toxicity problems -- has anyone tried this or similar preparations on clarinet?
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-08-04 18:32
The author and the person who conceived the idea certainly seem to be credible. I do note that the author mentions having encountered two cracks after starting to use the treatment and attributes this to missing the annual treatment. From a technical standpoint one wouldn't know if the horns that never cracked would or would not have cracked without the regular treatments, however. Still the empirical record seems to indicate the procedure might have merit. I am thinking the product does or did at one time contain sodium silicate.
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2004-08-04 18:46
Interesting idea. I'm eager to hear The (esteemed) Doctor's thoughts. Just one thought from me: With continually evolving state and federal air quality and toxicity rules, the current Thompson's formula may be different than the one written about, especially if the article is an older one, which means additional testing (on oboes, etc.) may need to be done.
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Author: John Morton
Date: 2004-08-04 21:28
To think that I could be using the same stuff on my clarinet that I put on my garage door every fall! Thompson's is pretty innocuous, and would seem to be a good choice for a sealant.
I am interested in the writer's observation that the bore sheds water readily - was there not a discussion about using windshield treatments to break the surface tension around tone holes? I am amused by the turkey feather application method - does he live across from a turkey farm?
John Morton
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-08-04 22:24
It is my understanding that this product consisted of silicone in a petroleum distillate carrier/solvent.
If it were sodium silicate I would expect it to leave a residual coating in the bore.
IMO this is an unwise use of this product.
Hans
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Author: Bellflare
Date: 2004-08-05 00:56
The link GBK posted seems to deal with hazzards during application, when it is volatile. What about after it dries?
Heck, why not just line the innards with glass or rubber (like the boot of a bassoon?) or delrin....or get a plastic clarinet and not worry.
Cracks must cost the manufacturers a lot, so y'd think they would use a treatment that works...if one exists.
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2004-08-05 02:25
Bassoon repairers have been sealing bassoon bores with linseed oil for years. It gets a tad bit smelly before it dries. One of the major clarinet manufacturer reps told me a few years ago that they soak their wood stock in linseed oil before lathe work. I don't know if they still do.
jbutler
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2004-08-05 03:10
Well, I belong to the school that says that the wood should "breathe" and be able to absorb and expel water depending on the moisture level already in the wood and the ability of the oil which is impregnated within the wood to buffer the water balance (plant derived oils have this buffering effect). My thought is that if the bore were entirely, and completely sealed, all the time, that this probably is not an awful thing but what if the treatment is somehow incomplete or over time some of it wears away due to swabbing, etc. In my view this area which was untreated or partially treated would absorb moisture to a greater extent leaving areas of dry wood next to areas of wood with more moisture. Hydraulic pressures within wood can be very powerful and this would seem to be a bad situation and one which could potentially lead to cracking more so than a bore which is able to exchange moisture freely. My explanation of the buffering effect of plant derived oils to maintain moisture balance has been given many times on the BB so I will not repeat it.
The Doctor
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-08-05 16:01
Doc -
What do you make of the hard rubber bore linings in Laubin oboes? The lining runs from the top of the upper joint to about an inch from the bottom of that joint, and is epoxyed in. See http://idrs.colorado.edu/Publications/DR/DR12.3/DR12.3.Bukalski.Laubin.html, a little less than halfway through the story. They use hard rubber chimneys for all the tone holes (at least for their rosewood instruments), so there is no water absorption there, but I'd think there might be trouble in the bore at the rubber/wood joint.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2004-08-05 20:59
Ken - very interesting interview and reminiscent of the many trials and tribulations with materials and suppliers that I have had recently. As I indicated it would probably not be a bad thing if the bore were completely sealed with an impermeable membrane, or coating. I guess that one would have to be extra careful not to let the outside of the instrument experience too dry or too wet conditions so that there were uneven stresses with the sealed bore wood. I forgot to add that the tone holes, as indicated, would have to be completely sealed too because of the escaping moist air. Perhaps a maker will come up with a lining for the bore and tone holes for the clarinet but this would be a radical departure from the current crop of instruments and would have to have other superior features for many to make the change. Also speaking from recent experience it is tough to introduce change and get the community to embrace new elements on the clarinet that they were not raised on.
(Disclaimer - I am a maker of the Forte' clarinet)
The Doctor
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-08-05 22:05
Thompson's Water seal is mostly paraffin wax, suspended in solvent.
The stuff is volatile, so it will draw into most every narrow passage preferentially, by capillary action.
It would not be my first choice of sealants on a resinous wood like grenadilla...
Flood brand 'Seasonite' is intended for use on Cedar for outdoor use.
That stuff is amazingly sticky - I would want to apply it to a clarinet body that is stripped entirely of moving parts.
I'm still peeling that stuff off my ankles from the first application to my new deck chairs!
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Author: Gazebo Dealer
Date: 2004-08-06 02:56
I've used Linseed oil before, and it does give a strong chemical smell...but at least it's all natural. I've heard oils as weird as coconut oil. LOL if you'd want something with a nice smell...that's the way to go...not sure what the effects on the horn would be.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-08-06 06:16
Rancid coconut smell - not nice!
Rancid, sticky polymerised linseed is bad enough! But that has been well covered in other threads.
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