 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-07-30 15:06
Would the "18 Etudes for the Clarinet" by Jean Jean have been written under the rules of accidentals as delineated by Klose:
"A sharp (#) placed before a note raises it by a half step. A flat (b) placed before a note lowers it by a half step. A natural restores a note previously affected by a sharp or flat. These symbols are called accidentals and they affect all the notes on the same line or space throughout one measure only."
or would the accidental also apply to notes an octave above and below.
This question is in reference to Etude #1 bar 45 (the second tres retenu) where the Chalumeau G is marked flat but the Clarion G is unmarked in the 1940 Alfred Music Co. edition.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-07-30 15:45
In the Jeanjean Etudes the written accidentals also apply to the notes an octave above or below.
As an example, look at Etude #2, measure 12 and you will see that the 2nd D# has a reminder parenthesis around the sharp to indicate that the accidental is carried through an octave below...GBK
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Author: Avie
Date: 2004-07-30 16:13
I have a copyright 1928 by Andrieu Freres, Paris, France, copyright assigned 1940 to Alfred Music Co. Inc. edition of Paul Jeanjeans 18 Etudes for Clarinet. In etude #1, bar #46 (the second tres retenu). I am under the impression that accidentals are indicated for all octaves although I am not aware of the Klose accidental rules. I will play it latter to form an opinion on what I think sounds best to my ear. Maybe the Pro BB members could further enlighten us. I havent played JeanJean etudes for some time but remember some of them as being difficult and some quite beautiful.
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-07-30 16:23
Thanks GBK, now would you look at bar #13 and tell me why then he puts unbracketed naturals in front of F3, F4 and F5. Would that not indicate that he does not assume the player is carrying accidentals to the octaves. Or is this issue being muddied up by the key signature.
OK here is a better example, 10th etude
bar 1 Chalumeau C# is not carried to Clarion
Bar 2 Clarion C# is bracketed implying it is carried
bar 5 C# is not carried
bar 6 C# is not carried
now that's 3 out of 4 to indicate that Jean Jean is not carrying accidentals between octaves.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
Post Edited (2004-07-30 18:03)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-07-30 19:35
Is it #? Is it natural?
It's Jeanjean .... tonally it could almost go either way...... Does it really even matter? We're not talking about a Bach sonata here.....
However, seriously...
bill28099 wrote:
> OK here is a better example, 10th etude
> bar 1 Chalumeau C# is not carried to Clarion
> Bar 2 Clarion C# is bracketed implying it is carried
> bar 5 C# is not carried
> bar 6 C# is not carried
The reason the C#'s are often rewitten is because of the occasional C naturals (measure 2, measure 6) which occur.
In these etudes the rule of accidentals applying to notes of different octaves still holds true ...GBK
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-07-31 15:46
OK GBK can we carry this discussion one step further? It's not that I don't believe you, I actually do, but I'm into the scientific approach to things and unsubstantiated statements, even though collaborated by my current teacher, bother me. I've also done a lot of searching on the net and can only reach the conclusion that there seems to be no "universal" rule on this issue.
First, I learned my theory ~50 years ago in the US and a lot of it came from my mother who was a piano player. I did not learn to carry accidentals but had I played Jean Jean as written and done it incorrectly my book would have been annotated, i.e., my clarinet teacher at the time was not carrying accidentals in Jean Jean or any place else for that matter.
So, when you approach an unknown piece of music do you ALWAYS assume accidentals are applied to the octaves? If not, can you elaborate a bit on the conditions under which you "would apply" and "would not apply".
Thanks
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-07-31 16:40
The rules for when accidentals carry (within a measure - different octaves) can be ambiguous. It's arguable that even the standard rules are ambiguous in the presence of multiple voices, clef changes, and perhaps even multiple octave changes. In addition, many 20th-century scores often contain a statement to the effect that accidentals apply only to the notes they precede.
The rules for accidentals are often extremely difficult to tell in highly chromatic music, so in borderline cases like that you would have to use personal judgement in interpreting accidentals.
Interestingly, this subject was discussed a few years ago on one message board where the writers were noting the differences in interpretational practices between musicians in the USA/Australia and Italy:
http://lists.shsu.edu/pipermail/finale/1999-December/013480.html
For specifics regarding accidentals in different octaves in the music of Jeanjean I've always followed and agreed with the flutist John Wion's interpretation as annoted in his errata file. Scan down to "Jeanjean":
http://hometown.aol.com/johnwion/errata.html
...GBK
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