 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Beechmere
Date: 2004-07-29 06:27
I'm not a Clarinet player, so please excuse my lack of correct terminology throughout this entire message.....
My daughter is a beginning Clarinet player (she's been learning for just over a year) and finds it hard to practice on her own for her junior school band, as the tune for the Clarinet is not usually the main melody of whatever popular piece she is learning. So it's hard to tell whether she's hitting the right notes, and whether her tempo is correct.
What I'm thinking of doing is buying a simple keyboard, eg a Yamaha or Casio, which will allow me to key in the main tune of her practice songs, so that when it plays back, she will hear the main melody with a correct rhythm, and her Clarinet accompaniment will then (hopefully) sound better.
The problem is, I can read music but I can't play very well, so I'm going to need a keyboard that is very forgiving. A music shop salesman showed me one that he said I could enter the notes "one bar at a time", which would solve some of my problems. I guess I could construct each song slowly this way, then save the finished product to play back for my daughter.
Can anyone recommend a specific keyboard model that would do what I want? Alternately, would music software programs be more suitable? I've downloaded a few free ones, but I find them very hard to edit and construct music with (but maybe I should spend more time reading the online manuals!)
Thanks,
Greg
Post Edited (2004-07-29 06:54)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-07-29 08:23
I would stick with software for this purpose. I use Mozart http://www.mozart.co.uk, but there are many others.
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-07-29 11:04
Greg,
I am also interested in the answer but for a different purpose. I have been without a keyboard instrument for many decades and think that I might enjoy an electronic one (I did have some good proficiency but it has been years so I am pertty rusty).
I was in Bestbuy looking at a full 88 key "device" and it was truly amazing. The keyboard action was much like a piano and the sound was variable and pretty cool.
All I could think about is "I can probably have the best of both worlds with one of these keyboards which has a good sound, a small footprint, and is very light as well."
Any additional advice beyond what Greg is asking is appreciated.
HRL
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-07-29 12:31
Hank, I think your requirements are completely different to Greg's. As I understand it, he wants a simple, low-cost device on which he can record and play back a melody. You want an instrument to perform music on.
As I said above, I think Greg's requirements are better met by computer software. I think yours may be better met by a piano!
Why?
From what I have seen, an electronic piano that is really worth having, for use by a competent pianist for real musical performance, costs as much as a real piano. It has some advantages - it won't go out of tune, it can transpose automatically, it can play as quietly or as loudly as you like, it can pretend to be a harpsichord or a vibraphone, and it is easy to store and transport. It has one huge economic disadvantage - it will depreciate from the day you buy it, whereas a good piano will keep its value, more or less. Its usable life is probably also quite short - maybe ten years - whereas a piano will last a century. Of course, the electronic piano will incur no maintenance costs along the way.
It has one huge musical disadvantage - it isn't a real piano. Put it this way, would you trade in your clarinet for a wind synthesiser? Thought not.
There is one option that might appeal, though the cost is high. Yamaha, and maybe others, make real pianos that can also record and play back digitally. Effectively, they are electronic pianolas. They sound like a real piano (because they are) they weigh as much and they have strings that need tuning. These should not be confused with the old-style "electric pianos" which had a real keyboard and hammers, but metal bars instead of strings.
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: msloss
Date: 2004-07-29 14:42
Greg, most electronic (MIDI) keyboards that have sequencers for programming in music have a feature called "quantizing", which will help to clean up your rhythms. These are simple tunes you are programming, so you can quantize to the eighth note or quarter note, and get a good result. As for software, there are programs like Steinberg Cubase SE that come with very competent sequencers and virtual instruments. The advantage to computer-based sequencer/synthesizers is that you can poke in the notes and rhythms visually on the screen (with mouse or keypad), and forego having to be able to play at all.
Hank -- for a few thousand dollars or less (wallet permitting) there are keyboards from Kurzweil, Yamaha, Korg, and others that have piano-weighted actions, shockingly good sample files of pianos, as well as a multitude of other sounds both normal and bizarre. Nearly all of these keyboards have sequencers so you can program or play in orchestrations to your heart's content. Spend a couple hundred on a keyboard amp, and you've got a professional rig you can take anywhere.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-07-29 14:58
Greg -
I think any electronic keyboard will let you play a melody line and save it as a MIDI file. You will then need to go through it with an editing program to set the correct tempo and correct any mistakes.
This is fairly tedious, and it might be just as fast to use the program to pick out the notes and note lengths with the mouse on an on-screen keyboard.
When I was a beginner, it took me about a year and a half to get my feet on the ground, to the point where I could stay with the rest of the band on the notes and rhythms. Please assure your daughter that everything will come together soon.
It started to come together for me when, one day, a light bulb went on in my head, and I realized that the G on top of the staff meant all the left hand covered. From then on, I didn't have to recognize the note, think of the fingering and make that fingering, but could go directly from seeing the "G shape" with my eyes and making the "G feel" with my fingers. Then, I associated the next lower note, the "F shape," with the G feel plus my right index finger down, and then got used to "F shape means F feel." Within a few days, I had extended the system up and down to cover the other notes.
It's like learning the addition tables. A child can answer the question "What's 1 + 1?" as "2" without having to think, but needs to be drilled on, for example, "What's 9 + 7?" until "16" is just as automatic.
So -- make a flash card showing each note. Show your daughter first line G, and she'll know automatically how to play it -- everything open. Explain that she needs to learn that kind of automatic recognition for each note -- shape means finger feel, without having to think.
The next step is recognizing groups of notes with a single glance, and having your fingers play them as a single gesture. For example, the descending 4-note scale shape, starting on the G above the staff (G, F, E, D), is NOT the G feel, followed by the F feel, the E feel and the D feel. Rather, it's the combined feel of having your left hand down and putting down your right index finger, middle finger and ring finger.
You can make flash cards for groups of notes, too. However, there are hundreds of scale and arpeggio patterns, and the best way to go about learning them is with a book of scales and arpeggios.
The goal is to be able to recognize a "shape" of 4, 8 or 16 notes (or even a long scale of, say, 20 notes) at a glance and start your fingers playing them, while you look ahead to recognize the next group or two.
As you can see, it's a complex process, and not anything that can be done just by talking about it here. Your daughter is ready to start private lessons. A live teacher will be able to play along with her, and, more important, hear what the problems are and assign exercises to help her overcome them. I think that will do more good than setting up MIDI accompaniments.
Sorry to go so far off-subject, but I think there are better possibilities.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2004-07-29 16:04
If you go the keyboard route to support your daughter's clarinet playing be sure to get a KB that has a transpose feature. Otherwise the piano will always be out of tune with the clarinet.
If you are not a KB player yourself, I think you will find that a KB's ability to record your efforts will simply play back all your wrong notes and hesitations. You'll need to use the KB's midi features in conjunction with your computer to end up with something usable. Better to use, as someone has suggested, a program that lets you enter music from a computer keyboard.
I think what might serve your daughter better is some of the Music Minus One (or similar) recordings). An orchestra or band is on a CD while your daughter plays along; the clarinet part is included with the CD. Just be sure to get a version for clarinet at an appropriate skill level.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda
Date: 2004-07-29 16:32
Here are a couple of suggestions:
1. Why not see if one of the other band students would be able to jam with your daughter at your home - or hers? Then they could play both parts and hear where each other comes in. 2. A clarinet teacher would be the best option since your daughter would be assured of learning the timing properly, and like Ken said the teacher could play the piece with her - providing of course that you have access to the part that carries the melody! At the same time a teacher can check out her instrument and look for bad habits that we all fall into if we aren't told about them. 3. A third option is to try SmartMusic - that has some of the exercise books installed in it, but not necessarily the one she needs. But it's worth looking at their website.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-07-29 22:52
Thanks everyone. Much to think about (I am trying to synthesize everything from the min-disc question I just asked).
This BB is a terrific source answers on most everything musical!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Beechmere
Date: 2004-07-30 00:50
Yes, thanks for all the great advice everyone!
I might stick with the software for now - last night, I spent well over an hour keying in the top staff of "California Dreaming" (one of my daughter's band pieces) on my software, and got it sounding pretty good. The interesting thing about this piece is that, half way through, the accompaniment tune swaps places with the main melody. So when I played it back, I could recognise the first 16 bars, but not the last 16!
BTW, She's been assigned to play the bottom staff of this piece. I'll let her loose with it tonight and see how she goes (by the time I'd finished tinkering last night, it was her bedtime!)
Greg
Post Edited (2004-07-30 00:52)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2004-07-30 01:10
I own several keyboards (synthesizers) and clarinets. My advice ... so long as it's got MIDI in/out ... get the cheapest you can. The quality of "cheap" synthesizers nowadays is pretty good, so long as you stick with a good brand. I recommend Yamaha as a cheap brand, but I don't recommend Casio as I've had problems with them in the past.
If money is not a problem, then I recommend Roland ... they are king of kings when it comes to synthesizers (in my humble opinion).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jim E.
Date: 2004-07-30 04:04
I bought a Korg electronic piano for my wife about four years ago. I never thought I would buy an electronic instrument, but...
We have a small room for it, 10 X 10 and it doubles as a sewing room and guest room with a Murphy bed. The Korg has a far better sound than any accoustic piano that would fit there.
The Korg is much lighter than any traditional piano.
We live in coastal New Jersey, and temp and humidity vary greatly seasonally. Additionally, we often use air conditioning. A traditional piano would RARELY be in tune.
My wife loves the Korg, though she still prefers the Steinway stage grand at our church!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
