 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Jerry Mucci
Date: 2004-07-25 01:31
I read GBK's review of the preproduction Forte clarinet designed by "The Doctor" posted last May.
I have not seen any reviews of production models. In fact I read on the Forte web site that the first production run is sold out, and the second run will be available July 25.
Has anyone any experience with the production models of this student instrument? Did I miss anything on this site? I didn't see anything on subsequent searches.
Jerry
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2004-07-25 03:11
I own a first run production line Forte clarinet (the first run has been subsequently sold out) and it was everything I (and others) had hoped it would be. I was happy to see that all the comments and suggestions from the pre-production and prototype models were incorporated into the final version of the Forte clarinet.
The 2nd run of Forte clarinets are available from distributors but are being sold at a very quick rate. I just saw the Doctor at this year's Clarinetfest and there was lots of interest in the Forte clarinet. His booth was very busy.
I believe that the 3rd production run of Forte clarinets is scheduled for October, however I would check with the Doctor for current and future availabilty.
Disclaimer: I was asked to be one of the original testers of the prototype Forte clarinet. My comments are on the Forte clarinet web site...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jerry Mucci
Date: 2004-07-25 03:34
For a 13 year old 2nd year clarinet student who has been renting up till now, how would you rank the Forte compared to whatever you consider to be the "top 3" or so student instruments, especially if the individual does not have the opportunity to test play a number of instruments. This would mean that consistency from unit to unit within the model line would be important.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2004-07-25 03:42
I am recommending the Forte clarinet for my younger students. It has a number of features which are not found (but should be) in the traditional student model clarinets produced by the "Big 4".
The Doctor's reputation for quality products based on thorough testing and design is well known throughout the clarinet community.
I would suggest discussing your interest in the Forte clarinet with him directly ...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-07-25 17:21
GBK,
I have one question for you...
Who is allowed to distribute the Forte Clarinets?
I ran across one on Ebay and didn't know if Graham and the Doc knew about it....or if it was Kosher...
Katrina
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2004-07-25 17:56
There are authorized dealers/distributors for the Forte clarinet.
I know for certain that the one you saw currently on eBay is from an authorized dealer...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alseg
Date: 2004-07-25 18:10
I also noted the one on ebay.
The dealer (cpoak) is reputable (I have purchased other things from him).
I have not tried the instrument, but based upon GBKs recommendation and Omar Henderson's reputation, I have mentioned the Forte to parents who want to know what to buy a student.
Disclaimer: No financial ties to this item, but as a dealer of handmade barrels, I have openly (in print) advocated Docs products for use on my merchandise.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Graham Golden
Date: 2004-07-26 20:45
The company that currently has a Forte' Clarinet on Ebay, (Screne Name CPAOK) is a certified Forte' Instrument Group dealer. They are a true clarinet shop and are very reputable and reliable regarding any clarinet products, makes or models, vintage or new.
Best,
Graham
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdennyclarinet
Date: 2004-07-26 21:40
I play-tested two Forte clarinets at the OU Clarinet Symposium... and luckily was the winner of the digital camera drawing! I really liked the design of the no-jam bridge key, rounded "A" key and register key, as well as the symbols for aligning the instrument better during assembly, but the two that I tried seemed a bit stuffy (IMHO). Therefore, there may be a bit of inconsistancy within production (as there is with many products). My advice (as it usually is with all students and colleagues) is to, yes, definitely collect information and opinions of others, but also formulate your own opinion if you get the chance to try them yourself. Everyone has different needs in an instrument and every instrument (regardless of brand/model) has its own set of good and bad qualities. You just have to figure out what you are willing or able to compromise.
K. Denny
BME, MM, DMA
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob A
Date: 2004-07-27 00:20
kdennyc said in part;... but the two that I tried seemed a bit stuffy (IMHO). Was this with your own choice of mpc or the one supplied or recommended for the instrument?
Bob A
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-07-27 01:48
Thanks for the info, GBK and Graham...
I did not mean to cast any aspersions on any eBay sellers, but was just perhaps a wee bit too concerned for y'all!
;)
Katrina
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jerry Mucci
Date: 2004-07-27 02:38
KDenny...
Did you try the two Forte's with the stock mouthpiece, or your own. By
"stuffy" what do you mean? Was stuffiness "slight", "modest", "moderate", or "very?" By "stuffy", do you mean it was not as free-blowing as you are used to? Is this the type of stuffy that might result from a poor seal
somewhere? Any particular register? All fingers down B or open G? What
make/model instruments are you accustomed to that you are comparing this
with? What other instruments have you played that are similarly "stuffy"?
Are they also student instruments, or all over the spectrum?
Your elaboration will add some perspective to your previous comment. Thanks.
Jerry
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdennyclarinet
Date: 2004-07-27 05:00
Jerry,
Some very valid questions... I will elaborate as best I can:
"Did you try the two Forte's with the stock mouthpiece, or your own."
--I tried it with my own setup. I was play testing clarinets all over looking for a new Bb for myself anyway. My setup is the Brad Behn Artist model mouthpiece that I've been playing on for over a year now, the Bay silver "covered" ligature, and a Vandoren V12 3.5 (which by the time I balance and adjust plays more like a 3.25). There quite possibly could have been a significant difference if I had tried the mouthpiece provided with the instrument.
"By "stuffy" what do you mean?"
--I did not hear the familiar and "tasty" ring I like to hear in a clarinet. It seemed I had to blow very hard to make a decent sound. It was difficult to blow and get an even sound in all of the registers.
"Was stuffiness "slight", "modest", "moderate", or "very"? Any particular register? All fingers down B or open G?"
--I would say the clarinet as a whole was moderately stuffy and the lower range (or all right hand fingers range--lower chalumeau/lower clarion) was very stuffy. The throat tones seemed to blow the best. Because it played uneven for me, a simple C major arpeggio did not project consistantly on each note.
"By "stuffy", do you mean it was not as free-blowing as you are used to?"
--I actually like to have some resistance in a horn because I feel I can get a more controlled sound with it. This was more than I prefer.
"Is this the type of stuffy that might result from a poor seal
somewhere?"
--It is quite possible, however, when the girl that was demonstrating played the same instrument, it did sound different/better. Probably because she was using a different setup and was used to the instrument already. I could speculate all day.
"What make/model instruments are you accustomed to that you are comparing this with?"
--I've played standard Buffet R13's for several years now (Brannenized) and recently added a Bb Buffet R13 Vintage model that I got a the symposium.
"What other instruments have you played that are similarly "stuffy"?
--As I said in my previous post, every instrument is different. Even when I was at the Buffet table, I almost walked away from the Vintage model after trying two out of three. The other two I had tried were very resistant and uneven throughout each register. Then, when I picked up the third, it was incredibly even blowing, slightly resistant, and had that "ring". I didn't care what label it had on it. I just knew it was a great instrument (which was verified by Brad Behn himself as he was thinking about buying it). However, to answer your question, I have tried several makes and models in my search for the "perfect" horn. The Selmer Signatures that I have tried have been the most resistant for me. The Yamahas that I have tried have been ok, but I just didn't find the one with the right "feel" for me. I was leaning toward the Leblanc models for a while but decided against the inflexibility of the "set" tuning in the upper range. By saying this, I'm sure it opens a whole other can of worms, but keep in mind, this has been in my experience on the horns I have played with my own setup. Everyone likes different characteristics in a horn.
"Are they also student instruments, or all over the spectrum?"
--As a teacher, I usually prefer for students to have a slightly free-blowing instrument with the resistance flexibility left up to the mouthpiece/reed set-up until they learn or I learn what works best for them. In trying to find student instruments, I have tried them all. The overall tone resistance of the "big names" has been fine, except I found the Vitos to be too free (promoting a lazy and "buzzy" tone). I really like what Ridenour has done to counteract the natural freeness in parts of the clarinet to help students with maintaining a consistant sound to help train their ears to strive for that characteristic tone. I've had several students experience great success on his horns.
Looking back, I wish I had taken the extra time to try the instrument with the provided mouthpiece. At least I would have a more conclusive opinion. By using my own setup, I introduced another variable. So, I hope I get the chance to try them again.
K. Denny
BME, MM, DMA
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Graham Golden
Date: 2004-07-27 16:57
Hello,
I hope i am not treading on the "Self promotion" arena in this post. If I am, GBK and Mark C. Please strike it from the record. –I feel it necessary to explain some misconceptions of our product.
The majority of the opinions that we received at both the OU Clarinet Symposium and this year's ICA ClarinetFest were that the instrument was very free blowing. However, the mouthpiece had a great effect on this result. It seemed that, especially with Vandoren mouthpieces, the instrument did not respond particularly well. However, every individual that had a difficulty with stuffiness and response with their mouthpiece felt that with the stock mouthpiece (a Gennusa GE*S) it was very free blowing and responsive. (Vandoren mouthpieces are of great quality, they just do not seem to be the best match for the majority of peoples when they play a Forte’). We hand selected the Gennusa mouthpiece to include with the instrument after test playing a dozen acrylic mouthpieces. The instrument also seems works well with Blayman, Gigliotti, Hawkins and Fobes mouthpieces. It seemed to be very consistently stuffy when played with a Vandoren type mouthpiece. I am not personally familiar with the playing characteristics of a Behn mouthpiece on the FOrte', nor have I played one personally. I am sure the mouthpiece is what caused the stuffy "resistance." Ironically, one of our "testers" during the development of the instrument, Douglas Masek, Saxophone Professor at UCLA and Hollywood recording artist, felt that the instrument was entirely to free-blowing with the stock mouthpiece, and preferred a higher level of resistance to be supplied with the stock mouthpiece. We have not fully explored that area as of yet.
Ms. Denny's experience is most certainly do to her mouthpiece, as i can safely say that consistently, no one has complained of stuffiness on the instrument when using the stock mouthpiece, or those listed above.
We are also researching and developing new barrel designs that will allow for a better match between mouthpiece and instrument, and prevent the horn from being quite so picky when it comes to mouthpieces. However that will not be seen with production models for quite some time. For the time being, from the opinions of all that we saw at ClarinetFest, OU Symposium and our extensive list of testers, it seems that the instrument does blow very freely with the right mouthpiece... and for a student that mouthpiece is included with the instrument.
As far as the consistency of the product, from those that currently carry our product, we have had feedback that the instruments are very consistent. It is difficult to produce a product of any quality at any price that plays exactly the same. CNC machining, hand adjustment all help allow for them to be very consistent, but there are to many variables to get every single horn to have the exact same playing characteristics. If we were to spend countless hours on each instrument hand tuning and voicing the instruments they would all play identically… But then they would be twice the cost. As their consistency is higher than many professional level instruments (from the feedback we receive from the public).
Ms. Denny, I hope you are enjoying your digital camera!
Best,
Graham
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2004-07-27 17:17
(Disclaimer - I am a co-inventor and seller of the Forte' clarinet)
An observation by an individual is just that - a person's perception of the playing characteristics of a particular instrument given their level of playing ability and mouthpiece, ligature, and reed.
My own observation using my own set up of Kaspar 11 mouthpiece, Gonzalez F.O.F # 4 reed, and Spriggs Floating Rail ligature was that I needed a different mouthpiece to make the Forte' perform to its optimum. I did not note any "stuffy" feeling - exactly the opposite. When I used a Clark Fobes 1.04 tip opening and same reed and ligature the clarinet performed beautifully. The mouthpiece that comes with the clarinet was chosen to be played with softer reeds - e.g. #2.5 - #3.5 and has a medium tip opening and similarily performed well for me.
The Doctor
*NB - the abbreviated post above was accompanied by a survey and statistical results of questions asked of 20 random players who play tested the Forte' at ClarinetFest. Mark C. considers the results as direct advertising - it is his call. You can email me for survey results if you are interested.
Post Edited (2004-07-27 19:02)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jerry Mucci
Date: 2004-07-27 18:07
Thank you, K. Denny. That was a very complete elaboration. Based on what you said, and the comments from Graham and The Doctor, I would have to agree it's the mouthpiece-related setup that resulted in the concern you expressed.
Has anyone tried the Gennusa GE*S mouthpiece on an R-13? I currently use a Van Doren 5RV lyre. There are some notes I'm not pleased with on my R-13, e.g. A5 region. What differences might I expect? If the Gennusa provides a "less stuffy" or "more pingy" sound on the Forte, what affect might it have on the R-13 I wonder?
Jerry
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2004-07-27 19:16
I have played the Forte clarinet with a number of mouthpieces and have concluded that both the enclosed Gennusa GE*S and a Fobes Debut (or equivalent - eg: Hite Premiere) produce optimum results. These, of course, would also be excellent mouthpiece choices for younger students.
Kudos to the Doctor for selecting the Gennusa GE*S as the mouthpiece of choice with the Forte clarinet as it is certainly a compatible match.
With pro level mouthpieces, the Forte clarinet (like all other clarinets) will perform better with some and less so with others.
Pro mouthpieces which have tested well with the Forte clarinet include Pomarico, Fobes, Borbeck and the more open facings of the Vandoren line.
Less successful was my Kaspar. I would assume that other pro mouthpieces from current makers with a a Kaspar style facing/chamber would play with the same results.
However, let's not forget that the Forte clarinet was geared toward the student market where beginning students would not be playing on Kaspar mouthpieces or the equivalent..GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: redwine
Date: 2004-07-27 19:46
Hello,
I am the maker of the Gennusa "Excellente" clarinet mouthpiece. My wife, Leslie and I purchased the business from Iggy about a year and a half ago, before his death. I was very happy to see so many friendly people (old friends and new) at the clarinet convention last week here in glorious Washington, D.C.
It's nice to see discussion about the Gennusa mouthpiece and the Forte clarinet. I didn't see the GE*S described and thought I would put in my two cents worth. The GE*S is a student model mouthpiece, made of plastic for affordability. The other models of Gennusa are made of rubber, which does have a superior sound quality, but I have been very happy with the results of the student model. In my opinion, each individual performer must choose the mouthpiece that works best for him or herself. All of the mouthpieces mentioned in the posts are fine mouthpieces and each one should be tested to see which one you think is the best.
By the way, I tested the Forte clarinet and, in my opinion, the makers of the Forte have done an incredible job making a very fine student clarinet.
Ben
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2010-07-03 23:15
Some years ago I purchased a Forte Clarinet 2nd hand for the purpose of using it as a "travelling clarinet" for situations where I didn't want to take my pro clarinets (for example if surfing before or after teaching I don't want to leave my instruments in the car etc). This must have been at least 4 or 5 years ago.
I used this instrument for one summer but at the start of the next academic year sold the clarinet as I was short of cash. The student I sold it to absolutely loved both "the clarinet" and "this clarinet", and has since worked very hard and always been involved in lots of school bands/orchestra etc. This clarinet has, in the last years, had a very busy life and has certainly been played for, I'd estimate, an average of an hour a day for most of the year.
Now it's true that this student will have taken good care of her instrument, but I think it's worth mentioning that in all this time we have never once had any problems that required a trip to the repair shop. No bending keys, no split/buzzing pads.
Compared to Chinese made "internet clarinets" I see that are often unplayable after 3 months of use this is outstanding, but hardly surprising. What I do think is worth mentioning is that this record stands out above the plethora of "name brand" student instruments rented out by NZs biggest store. These instruments may not be treated as kindly as the Forte I see every Wednesday at 6.30pm, but as each year goes by (and the Forte owning students playing gets better and better) I find myself wishing all my students were playing such a problem free instrument!
dn
edit- just checked dates, this clarinet has been played by said student since March 2006.
Post Edited (2010-07-03 23:19)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
