 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: chrystineNYC
Date: 2004-07-22 21:12
I did try a search, didn't quite get an answer but if a pretty new clarinet has been sitting out for, let's say a month, indoors, exposed to light but not directly under it and gets severely rusted, can I assume that a good scrubbing from a polishing cloth will be enough or is the clarinet damaged?
Clarinet played fine just had the copper-toned look.. guess it wanted a sun-tan. Seriously, spent an hour removing the rust, even in the nooks and crannies of it and it seems back to its shiny silver look.
Lesson being learned, it is now safe in the case.
My question, do I need to do anything further and is the clarinet ruined in any way.
Thanks for reading and appreciate any replies given.
Clary Chrys
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-07-22 22:31
The term rust is confined to corrosion of STEEL.
I presume you mean tarnish or corrosion (usual;l;y used when the tarnish is more severe). There are many types of corrosion, depending on just which what caused it. Are your keys nickel plated or silver plated?
If the corrosion was also in the inaccessible nooks and crannies, then presumably it was caused by something in the air.
All manner of fumes, even that of the glue used in a clarinet case, can cause nickel corrosion.
The most common cause of silver tarnish is sulphur products in the air.
Sulphur is the worst enemy of silver. It comes from industrial vapours, naked flames (gas cooking?), probably tobacco smoke, vehicle exhaust, onions, garlic, eggs, wool and its products (including felt), geothermal activity, flatus, rubber (mattress?), hard rubber (mouthpiece?).....
The lining or adhesive used in some instrument cases has been incriminated in the past. Salt spray and chlorine (swimming pools?) seem also to be bad. The perspiration of some people is very corrosive. Some players spit over their instruments while playing.....
See
http://www.silversmithing.com/care.htm
Try http://www.firescale.com/t-n-t.htm#d
And http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles/silver/care.htm
Also http://www.floramex.com/li-care-of-silver.htm
If your particular environment causes tarnish that quickly, then it may be advisable to keep the instrument inside the case along with some tarnish-preventing paper strips. Every time the plating tarnishes and the tarnish is removed, you have removed more silver, and on many instrument, even from top makers, the silver plating is disappointingly thin.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-07-22 22:37
One of my former classmates always had a problem with her clarinets. I am 99% positive that she had nickel plated instruments, and the keywork always became corroded. We're also talking R13's here. The plating would wear off within a year and there would be copper-colored layers underneath.
I have never had any such problems with my clarinets. The only difference we could figure that would cause these changes to her clarinets was the difference in hand sweat. Yes, hand sweat. My hands do not sweat. Not that there isn't innate skin oil in my hands, but my palms and fingers do not sweat. Hers did.
Was your clarinet sitting out and getting played or not getting played? Is the discoloration on all of the keys and even in places you can't touch?
Katrina
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-07-22 22:44
Chrys....your description of your experience with your clarinet seems very unusual to me. If you care to give more details perhaps we could zero-in on the cause. The first thing that comes to mind is that you are on the seashore or close to an oil refinery or some other industrial Zone.
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2004-07-22 22:48
Everyones hands emit carbonic and phallic acid I'm told. Some have more "corosive" systems (for a lack of a better term) than others. I knew a young man when in college that could make any new horn look ten years old withing a month even with careful care. I am lucky that I do not have that problem, but I agree with Katrina that some of us do not have a problem while other do.
jbutler
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Author: Tara
Date: 2004-07-22 23:22
My R-13 Bb tarnished very quickly at the exact points of contact with my hands/fingers. (Bad tarnish- through the copper color to more metal). It is nickel plated. My A clarinet, however, is silver plated, and I have not had any trouble with tarnish. When I purchased the A, I made a point to quickly wipe off the keys before putting it away after playing. I do this with both horns now, but for the first 3 or 4 years I wasn't so careful with my Bb. I am convinced my corrosion was the result of acidity of my hands, or something like that.
Just my own experience. Good luck with yours.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-07-23 13:21
jbutler....just where have you had your hands!!!!
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2004-07-23 16:09
jbutler, LOL. Could you mean phthalic acid, which is a non-specific name that encompasses terephthalic acid and paraphthalic acid? I'm not an expert, but my Web searching so far has produced no link between phthalic acid and human skin, but I have found that the skin is protected by a layer of fatty acids.
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Author: jmsa
Date: 2004-07-23 16:33
I have an R13 with nickel plated keys and my hands normally have an enormous amount of acid. Before playing I always wash my hands thoroughly and after I finish playing I wipe all of the metal on my instrument with a Flitz cloth. The keys that my fingers touch are beginning to show a copper color. I inquired about replating and was told by an expert that the sound of my horn, which I love, might change, so I am not taking that risk. About every 2 weeks I use Flitz metal cleaner, which also helps. It is a lot work, but it is worth it.
jmsa
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2004-07-23 20:15
chrystineNYC --
Just a clarification: Are you talking about a metal body clarinet that has tarnish/corrosion/rust on the body, as well as the keys, or a wooden (or plastic) clarinet on which the keys (and maybe the bell and barrel rings) have the problem?
Todd W.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-07-23 21:32
jmsa...IMHO you're wearing away your nickel plating with too frequent Flitz and the copper undercoat is beginning to show. I don't place too much confidence in the comment that replating will change the sound of your horn....sounds like a saxman.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-07-23 22:51
Nickel plating seems to have three, main, distinctly different problems:
1. Tarnish.
Usually an even dulling or whitening of the surface, with a loss of slipperiness, NOT where the fingers normally rub keys. This is caused by reaction with contaminants in the air. Finger chemicals could also be indicated if the tarnish is restricted to areas that are SOMETIMES contacted by the fingers. Nickel reacts in strange ways to many fumes and contaminants that have no effect on silver. (One is the fumes from polyurethane varnish - my wire puzzles which I had nickel plated, turned a dull white overnight in a newly varnished box.)
2. Pitting.
The surface has tiny holes, often accompanied by tiny eruptions ('pimples 'for want of a better word), giving it a rough feel, a bit like sand paper.
Once the surface has broken (and it may well will be riddled with microscopic porosity at manufacture) the sweat acts as an electrolyte between the dissimilar metals of the nickel plating and the base metal, probably AIDED by the copper layer, and sets up a galvanic cell. This eats away at the metal.
The standard of plating by many instrument makers appears to be pretty poor, especially in the last few years. This is probably why your problem has occurred so fast.
It seems to me that if the plating is well done in the first place, there would not be immediate problems from porosity.
3. Wear.
For nickel, which is very hard, actual wear (as opposed to pitting) should not be a problem for many years, unless the plating is extraordinarily thin, which is very likely by today's manufacturers.
It is common to see worn off patch es surrounded with copper-coloured rings on certain well-fingered keys of 'top' make instruments which are only a year or two old. This is definitely true for some silver plated instruments; I am not sure about nickel. However, if this is a manufacturer's current standard of silver plating, then the nickel plating is likely to be just as bad.
How about getting a written statement from an electroplater, and then asking for replacement. If more people did this, then manufacturers would have a reason to improve their act.
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Author: chrystineNYC
Date: 2004-07-26 17:10
Wow.. I honestly was expecting maybe a "you have a cheap clarinet" response. LOL. Clarinet is a Buffet E-11 and believe it is nickel-plated.
I appreciate all the theories. And I can conclude that it was something in the air. I did have a slight gas leak in the house. Didn't think it would reach the bedroom where the clarinet was located. But its definitely possible.
I wasn't playing the instrument at the time that this all happened. So not sure my hands/fingers take the blame. But as long as it plays like a charm, I will assume its ok.
Appreciate the wonderful responses.
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-07-27 00:18
Chrystine,
I think it would not take much of a gas leak to cause the problem and agree with your conclusion. Gas contains ethyl mercaptan, which is corrosive, as an odorant so that leaks can be detected easily. Mercaptans have been known to destroy refinery distillation columns.
After living in a house heated by an oil furnace for ~16 years, we moved to a new house heated by a high efficiency gas furnace in the basement and my wife soon noticed that her jewelry, kept in a second floor room, was tarnishing much more quickly than it used to. I have not seen any change in my clarinet's silver plating though so maybe it's a combination of factors like humidity, SO2 in the air, etc.
Regards,
Hans
Post Edited (2004-07-27 14:29)
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