 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2004-07-20 00:52
Why don't I get the support of my family with my clarinet playing? No one really seems to care too much... My parents are kinda supportive and kinda not... I try to play something for them sometimes and they're like that's nice go away now... My brother makes fun of me for playing it all the time... And none of my other siblings seem interested in the least... I'm getting support from no one in my family really... Or so it seems... I guess self motivation works though... My dad really doesn't want me to play because he thinks that clarinet players don't get paid that much... How much do they get paid anyways?
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2004-07-20 01:19
I'm a clarinet teacher and I make between 24 and 30 bucks an hour without a music degree. That's not too shabby at all. I earn about the same amount now as a clarinet teacher as I did as a waiter. The only difference is as a waiter, I was working 40-50 hours a week. As a clarinet teacher, I work 20-25 (that's alot of students, but it beats carrying trays of food around and having middle aged people take out a week's worth of frustration on you every Friday night! Any waiters/ex-waiters know what I'm talking about!)
As far as your family not supporting you, whatcha gonna do? You certainly aren't the first person in the world who's parents aren't 100% supportive of their decisions. If they really aren't interested, then just keep yourself motivated. You might also seek out people who are interested and will encourage you (a good teacher, friends who also play, maybe join/start a clarinet ensemble). I'm not sure what your situation is, but there are things you can do.
DH
theclarinetist@yahoo.com
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2004-07-20 01:20
Dear Psycho,
It was like that for me as well, when I was a kid. Parents think learning to play an instrument is a wonderful thing, because it "teaches you discipline" when you have to practice, gives you "cultural exposure", and stuff like that. But then if they think you are actually interested in pursuing it seriously, they panic ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
Not that I blame my parents for anything, but this attitude is part of a larger picture, in which playing music is a competitive activity, and the arts have to be "supported" with donations. Our ideas about music and musicians are all screwed up.
Welcome to reality ![[right]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie8.gif)
Steve Epstein
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Author: Camanda
Date: 2004-07-20 02:02
If you're serious about playing, explain that to your parents, and point out that you know you can't make a living just by playing. I personally don't know anyone who just plays and makes a living. Most of them teach for a living (privately or with a school, including my director and his buddy, a professor at Berklee), and some have a day job as a waiter or a cashier or something. It's almost impossible to make good money by playing, especially in my area 'cause there's just not a lot going down in Li'l Rhody.
My parents support me; they buy me what I need, anyway, and don't lecture me about money, mostly because I don't care that much about the money. They don't go to my concerts, though. They always find some excuse to get out of it. I'd rather they went to my concerts than just bought me everything I asked for, even if that's convenient. Basically: welcome to the club.
Amanda Cournoyer
URI Clarinet Ensemble, Bass Clarinet
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2004-07-20 02:13
haha, yeah... I guess the job doesn't pay too much... But, oh well I love music all the same, and ain't givin it up... They were supporting me morally, until I told them I wanna major in music and make it my career... So, yeah I guess that scared them... I guess I should look into colleges now, and see if I can get a scholarship, because I doubt they'll help me...
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2004-07-20 02:18
Talking about support...
At all age levels--meaning whether you're a teenager student, like yourself, Psycho Girl, or mom-and-wife as myself--- I think we clarinetists don't really get the full support they want to have. Though my family is never enthusiastic about my playing the clarinet, I thank them for not making nasty comments about it.
And just like Steve Epstein pointed out, I encourage my kid to learn to play some instruments but will be afraid if he wants to major in music. Maybe I'm an egoistic mom, but one person is enough in my household who spends quite a lot on a musical instrument.
You might go to Music college and so forth, to become teacher/ performer to make your living, but I know from this board that quite many people in many countries have OTHER non-music related profession AND are serious clarinettists.
Lucy Lee Jang
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-07-20 03:31
Hey ... been there done that. All of my siblings are tone deaf, except one, and all of them (except the tone-enabelled one) showed no interest in my musical endeavours as a child whatsoever. Having said that, my oldest brother did purchas my first "professional" clarinet for me, for which I'm eternally grateful. My (late) mother was very supportive, bless her, my father was of the opinion that music isn't a serious career (funny, he was a clergyman, the irony). At school it was decidedly "uncool" to be a musican, so you got bashed up (physically and mentally) ... things might just be different now - I was a student in the 60s--70s.
So ... don't whine about lack of support, rather take a positive approach or buy a semi-automatic and deal with your adversaries that way (I jest).
If you have a real passion for it and your cat/dog or pet mouse tolerate your playing, then you've at least got an audience that won't criticise. Mind you, my pet cat at the time was most vexedwhen I played my clarinet and would run off and hide at the site of the case, didn't even have to get my instrument out of its case.
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2004-07-20 03:40
Obviously, we don't know all the dynamics of your family situation, but you're parents probably think they have your best interests in mind. I mean, there are tons more clarinetists than job openings for clarinetists (in performance OR teaching). I mean, you can probably work as a clarinetist, but it probably won't pay the bills totally.
I personally believe that majoring in music is kind of foolish (unless you want to be a teacher/professor). Other than that, the degree itself isn't worth a whole lot. I would agree that being in a collegiate music environment provides you with more accessible opportunities for "experience" (playing in orchestra, musical/pit orchestra, chamber music, etc...), but I mostly think that it depends on the individual. For example, I am majoring in anthropology at a college that doesn't have a music department (it's an upper-level undergraduate/graduate school). I also take clarinet lessons at a community college (where I went before my current school). Each year I put on a recital, and next year I plan on playing some chamber works with string quartet. The school doesn't have many strings, but the school will probably be willing to hire one, or I can probably finesse some members of the local symphony to play with me. The school has a recording studio, and next year I also plan to make a CD (mostly just for fun and for the experience of "studio recording"). Additionally, as mentioned, I also teach clarinet lessons for two school districts and play the occasional gig. The point of this story is that, even though I'm not majoring in music, I am still an active performer and, with a little effort, I've been able to expand my performance experience beyond what the school traditionally offers (and I'll hopefully actually be able to use my anth. degree to make some money too!). Obviously, my situation works for me and may not work for others, but it's something to think about.
Many people seem to think that their options are 1) devote their academic careers and the rest of their lives to music or 2) put the clarinet on a shelf and never look at it. I am a more active musician than most of the music majors I know. I believe that you can achieve pretty much what you want, no matter what path you choose. Some might point out that, as a teacher, the degree you have may handicap you somewhat. I know that with some teachers (though I haven't encountered this personally), the teachers with better "degrees" get favoritism when students are alloted. However, if you have an additional, non-musical source of income, this wouldn't be as big a deal as if you were relying on lessons as your only income. On the other hand, I don't have a bachelor's degree yet (and when I do, it won't be in music), and I have more students than i know what to do with. Once you establish a reputation, I think the degree matters less and less.
I didn't mean to turn this into a "major in music or not" debate. Your certainly should do whatever you think is best, but also consider that your parents may have more wisdom than you in career-related stuff. This doesn't mean you have to go along with what they want, but as I said, they are probably doing (what they think) is in your best interests, not just being mean or unsupportive.
DH
theclarinetist@yahoo.com
SORRY THIS GOT SO LONG! I COULDN'T STOP TYPING!
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2004-07-20 03:51
heh, my first years, yea, my parents didnt really want to hear it, b/c i didnt sound good, my sound wasnt pleasureable, at all. But now im good, or good enough anyway to please the (at least untrained) ear. I dont play for them though. They hear me at concerts and such though. But, as long as they pay for certain things that i need im ok. BTW, if u arent considering going professional, and if im correct u haven't been playing for a while so that decision is kinda early to make, u can tell him u can get a scholarship for college by playing ur clarinet very well. Of course, u have to be able to play well......practice will help that of course, anyway, jsut my 2 cents.
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2004-07-20 04:40
To diz:
"At school it was decidedly "uncool" to be a musican, so you got bashed up (physically and mentally) ... things might just be different now - I was a student in the 60s--70s."
Band today is kinda like a cult of it's own... If one band member gets hurt everyone goes after the person who hurt them... Band people seem to stay away from the outside world anyways...
To theclarinetist:
True majoring in music is kinda foolish, but if I'm fortunate enough to get a husband who can support me, then I'll be doing good... I might reconsider majoring in music, but I would like to take music courses in college... And my parents' probably are looking out for my best interests, and what they think will work out...
To mkybrain:
Yeah, I'm thinkin bout tryin to get a scholarship based off of my clarinet playing...
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Author: SGTClarinet_7
Date: 2004-07-20 15:46
My parents WERE actually supportive of me, and it does help. I just didn't have any supportive TEACHERS at my high school. They all had their own personnal problems that interfered with teaching, but oh well. As far as paying, I joined the military and get paid twice a month to play clarinet. I also get money for college and get to travel. I've done it for 12 years now, so consider this my shameless plug if you want. The military isn't for everybody, but it lets me play daily were elsewhere the hum-drum of everyday life probably would not. If anyone is interested about this, just start another post aboput the topic and I'll help anyway I can.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2004-07-20 21:18
Don't pay any attention to what your siblings think. If they're like most brothers and sisters at that age, they'll make fun of anything you do or are interested in. You can't win with them, so don't try.
As far as your parents, I don't know their thinking well enough to address it, but if they aren't musicians themselves, they may not understand the pleasure you get from playing. I'm not and never will be professional, but I find playing my instrument to be a good way of staying sane.
And some parents, particularly dads, have a very practical streak in them, thinking that a lot of things are worth pursuing only if you can make decent money doing them. In addition to the pleasure (and sanity) aspect of playing, you might point out that students who study music usually do better in other subjects at school as well. (I cannot say with conviction that music is the cause of the better grades or if something else is the cause of both, but you are free to imply that music causes better grades.) And getting better grades can help you to get into college, get scholarships, get a better job, etc. There's the practical aspect for you.
And don't assume that a lack of enthusiastic display on the part of your parents means a lack of support. Some of us are simply not good at displaying enthusiasm.
In any case, do it for yourself, if not for others.
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2004-07-20 22:04
I'll try ignoring my siblings... And you're right about my dad, he got really scared when I told him I wanted to major in music...
My whole family is tone deaf though, at least that's my opinion... None of them are really musical at all... So, they can't really relate to me as a young musician...
My family has no problem with high school band, it's just college they're worried about...
I'll be sure to remember to do it for myself.. thanks
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-07-20 22:33
Mary - you can do a double major you know - it's hard work, I know so.
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2004-07-20 22:43
The whole music major thing is interesting to me... Music seems to be one of those rare degree that many people enter into simply because they like it, without much consideration for job prospects (along with other things like philosophy, the classics, etc..). Obviously, people can make a living with these degrees, but that doesn't usually seem to be the main motivation.
Let me rephrase my original statement. Majoring in music simply because you like it is foolish. There are exceptions, of course. I personally feel that with a little ambition and a library card (and in our case, a good CD collection and a dedicated teacher), you can learn the equivalent of what you can learn from ANY college degree on your own. So what's the point of the degree? Some idealists would probably claim that a college degree is designed to make you a well rounded "educated" person. Preparing to enter my last year of college before grad. school, I realize this is in reality not the case at all. Most people are there simply to get their diploma with the least amount of effort and learning possible. People scramble to sign up for classes with the easiest teachers that don't assign projects or give tests, and people complain when a teacher actually expects them to use their brain! There are exceptions, but this appears to be the dominant approach in most cases. I've learned a lot in my anthropology classes, but I"ve learned way more just from reading books on anthropological subjects on my own. I'm sure my diploma will get me a job, but the effort I've put in on my own is what will drive me. So, the point of college appears to be to get a piece of paper saying "I navigated the red-tape of a higher learning institution for four+ years... give me a job please". Whether you learn anything in the process is incidental (and I think, entirely up to the individual).
Similarly, I was a music major for one year (I was a person who majored in it just because I liked it). I've probably learned more about clarinetting and music by reading this Bboard than I did that whole year. Since I have no desire to be a band director or college music professor, I have no need for a music degree. All of my musical dreams (teaching private lessons, playing with a symphony, becoming a world famous recording artists...) can be achieved without the degree (I'm not saying I WILL achieve them, but it is theoretically possible to do without the diploma). I guess you should first decide what you want your job to be (if you plan on having one... you mentioned finding a man to support you. That's always nice, but I think everyone needs a contingency plan...), and then go from there.
You mentioned wanting to still take music lessons in college. Go for it! After changing majors from music, I still took lessons, and played in band/clarinet ensemble for a scholarship. As I said before, when making this decision, avoid the "all or nothing" view that many people seem to have in regards to picking music as a major.
DH
theclarinetist@yahoo.com
PS - I hope I don't seem pessimistic about the "college experience". I actually enjoy college a lot, because I make the most of it. Your own ambition will take you places. You could be a music major and make the most of it and become the next big clarinet star. However, if you have the drive to achieve such greatness, whether or not you had a degree in music probably wouldn't matter. Again, sorry for the long post. I know exactly what your going through (major picking), and I hope that I can represent a positive alternative, if you choose to take it. I'm sure there are tons of people with much more musical knowledge and experience who will read this and think I"m full of it, but it's just what I've noticed from my own experiences. Good luck!
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2004-07-21 02:00
I have a question... Can you audition on the clarinet for a scholarship to a school that's not just for music? I mean how can you double major if the school is just for music? I'm not familiar with colleges all that much so help me out here....
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Author: pewd
Date: 2004-07-21 02:11
sure, depending on the school.
i went through university on a band scholarship.
it really annoyed the music facuty that i didnt major in music, i majored in computer science, despite spending more hours in the music building than i did in the science labs.
many schools have band scholarships, orchestra scholarships, etc. where i went to school (TCU, Ft Worth) the requirement if you won a band scholarship was play in the band, take lessons, and play in any other groups they needed me to (recital hours, ensembles, pit orchestras, jazz band, etc.).
most major universities have multiple schools with mutiple majors in different fields available.
call or visit the schools you're interested in and ask about music scholarships.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: mags
Date: 2004-07-21 10:18
I am 46...and have been learning the clarinet less than a year. My husband says nothing at all. He doesn't tell me'oh..that sounded nice'...and I don't like it! In fact....he shuts all the doors in the house so he can't hear. He loves to hear my youngest playing sax...even when he is being stupid...and not playing properly.....but I am always cold shouldered....including his parents...who..when they visit...I can see...they aren't interested in my playing one bit......stuff them !...Actually...I think I'm too intelligent for them!!!! I think I married beneath myself!!!
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2004-07-21 13:56
Another factor that most don't consider when thinking about why (insert name of "melodic instrument" here) players don't have a ready audience is that of harmony.
Virtually all musical instruments (save only piano, organ, guitar and the four food groups of the string family) are incapable of playing in harmony with themselves. We do employ some tricks to get close (arpeggi for the most part) but clarinets, like the rest of the brass and winds, are suited only to play one line of notes at a given time.
There is an old adage about violins that goes something like "One violin, brilliant; two violins, eh; three violins, better; four violins heaven". A soloist, playing double and triple stops all the while, is impressive in a technical sort of way, but there is no substitute for "filling out all of the parts" in a typical Western music composition. And, the only practical way that this is going to be done in the home is through a recording.
My group ran the old stock version of Night and Day last Saturday at two separate band jobs. It's got the saxes on clarinet (and I add a bass clarinet, doubling the second alto/non-solo clarinet's line at the octave, for the baritone part). Individually, the parts sound like...well, you know. But with all four together, they are a beautiful harmonic blend atop which the (florid and technical) solo part floats like a bird.
All five of us have individually noticed how crappy each part sounds alone, yet how well they all work together. One of the characteristics of ensemble music, I guess.
In any event, there are those of the older generation (I'm in my fifties, for example) that don't like shrill sounds (something the clarinet can produce in spades, even if well played). Then too, you are most likely not playing "easy listening" music when you are practicing; most "parenting adults" these days grew up with a mix of soft rock and their own personal pop genre as their "musical standard", and I doubt that that's what you'll be practicing.
There are parents who are all art music, all of the time, but I would venture that they are in the minority. Unless you're going to make it a point to seek out (not easy) and perform the kind of "pop" music that is "music to their ears", you're just going to have to accept support but not enthusiastic support.
And, if you think that you have problems, consider the enthusiasm levels of the parent of a tuba, drum or (shudder) alto clarinet playing kid...
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2004-07-21 13:57
mags,
My sympathy to you. I also experienced that 'shutting all the doors' situation..'No tooting after 8 pm' was another order from my hubby.
Lucy Lee Jang
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-07-23 08:56
A couple of thoughts to consider:
1 - I'm not sure that parental opposition is such a bad thing. I think that it causes a lot of wishy-washy folks to face reality before it's too late, and makes a lot of dedicated folks even tougher. It doesn't hurt anyone to have to analyze and justify their plans.
2 - Despite poor job prospects, I don't think that it's useless to major in music. Music majors often do very well for themselves, and largely so because of the discipline that was applied to learning music. Also, I think that sort of immersion is important for teachers as well as players. Unless you are very disciplined and open-minded, most musicians have to be force-fed many of their direst necessities. Having too much choice about what you do and don't want to learn can leave some pretty big holes. I will be the first to complain about the kind of bull that takes place in college, but it forces you to become knowledgable about important things whether you're interested in them or not. That 'take your medicine' kind of discipline is very important for any working musician.
3 - I wouldn't count on getting a music scholarship as a non-music major. (Despite the fact that it worked for Paula Zahn) There are plenty of people DYING to get into music school, and a number of my students have encountered colleges who actually put a limit on the number of new clarinet majors. Scholarships are normally inducements for exceptional players, or for players of hard-to-get instruments (viola, double reeds, french horn, bass instruments). Most scholarship instrumentalists are going expected to engage in considerable ensemble participation and this can be tough from a scheduling point of view when you're majoring in something else.
Plus - you're competing for scholarship dollars with people who live and breathe music 24/7/365.
Look reality in the face, and take the bull by the horns. Don't wait for your miracle--MAKE IT!
Allen Cole
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Author: Bob Schwab
Date: 2004-07-24 09:50
If my memory serves me correctly, George Frederich Handel's father wasn't too keen on him taking up a career in music either. You're not in bad company. I do like a point that allencole made, that such opposition tests your commitment.
Bob Schwab
"Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?"
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Author: Dragonpuppy
Date: 2004-07-25 00:04
Hi! I'm 15 and my parents dont want me to be a musician. My mother forced me to try out for an arts oriented high school and I actually made it. So for the past year I would wake up early, ride the bus for 1/2 an hour and arrive at school 1/2 an hour early.
I hated that and I hated the music theory class. I was dismayed that I was placed in the "bad" section of the orchestra a.k.a. the back corner... and had trumpets, timpanis, and cymbals (the scariest!) banging in my ears! I hated it so much I try out for a different type of arts, got in, and realized how much I really loved music! I started to have interest and this scared my parents. In band, I was extremely behind everyone else. Worse yet, the band teacher seemed to be picking on me : (
My mother offered that we move into another house so I could go to a different school. My dad didnt like me taking music lessons.
A career in the arts is encouraged at my school! The visual majors visit art colleges... and a some successful musicians actually came to talk to us about how great it is.
Honestly, I look at the many music teachers that do teach me. They seem happy and well off. They have so much fun teaching music and are so not-stressed! Most importantly, they touched so many lives with the love of music!
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Author: Brad
Date: 2004-07-27 18:00
Follow your heart. If you love playing the clarinet then play. No one should take your joy from you. Try explaining to your family what it means to you.
I was in the same boat for a long time. My family hated my clarinet playing. Whenever I started practicing doors and windows would start slamming. I finally had to practice in the garage with the door closed (never too cold in So Cal). My parents attended a total of about 4 concerts I played in my life. In spite of this I still made all the "honors" bands and orchestras. I was a music major and ended up playing principal clarinet in our Wind ensemble and orchestra.
I am 42, playing as much as I can, and still pursuing a career in music and loving it.
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