 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: BassClarinetGurl
Date: 2004-07-19 00:41
I have been playing Bass Clarinet for 3 years. And i need advice on how to play louder. Yes i know use more air....but its not working for me...
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Author: 'nifer
Date: 2004-07-19 01:20
how are the high notes, are you pretty solid with them? If so, play on a tad softer reed and see if you get the same stability with the high notes, if so.. problem solved.. (the cheap answer).. the more expensive answer is to try a more open mouthpiece and find one that you like!
have fun!!
'nifer
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-07-19 02:42
I think the key when talking about high notes is the upper clarion. If you can play that little grouping of notes, you can play anything on the Bass (provided everything's in good working order). Indeed, including upper clarion exercises in the latter part of your warm up seems to help with playing with a good, solid sound on the lower notes. If you can avoid it, though, try not sacrificing reed strength. With each step down that you take, you lose stability and ease of play in the higher notes.
From a conversation I've had with you in the past, I know you're on the market for a Bass of your own. And in that vein, I think you should seriously consider going for a nice mouthpiece in addition to your new instrument. Clark Fobes and Walter Grabner are two of the best and most respected mouthpiece makers on the market (while certainly not the only good ones). I've talked with both of them directly in the past. Both are very friendly individuals with a lot of knowledge, and will probably be able to help you with finding what you need. You told me that you were looking to spend around $1000 on a new instrument, and knowing that the mouthpiece can make a huge difference on how you sound, it might be worth it to you to spend the extra $80-200.
Clark Fobes's contact info and products can be found at www.clarkwfobes.com, and the same for Walter Grabner at www.clarinetxpress.com.
Also worth mentioning - while this is much more an issue with saxes, I've found it to be true on other instruments as well. Some instruments just can only play so loud without diminishing returns. You may find that buying a good student instrument will help remedy that problem.
As for reeds - Most everyone seems to like Vandorens, but that's just a good place to start. You may find that you don't like them, and if that's the case, I've read good things about Gonzalez and Rico Grand Concert reeds on this board. Might be worth a try. I'm personally a fan of Rico Lavoz reeds, though they were designed for more jazzy playing, so the sound you get with them might differ a bit from what you're used to.
Hope I've been more help than a road block. There are definitely people here more knowledgeable than me on the Bass subject (David Spiegelthal, who's helpfulness is matched only by his wit and donkey, and Ken Shaw, I believe are both posters with a very good knowledge of the Bass), so by no means take my word as a final.
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Author: Gazebo Dealer
Date: 2004-07-19 03:44
It's not always necessarily "louder, louder, louder" but most of the time it's "spinning" your air or speeding up the air in your air stream. Spinning the air is a term oboe and flute players use (I've never heard a clarinet player use it), and it's mostly just imagery of air going through the mouth. But it helps me get a fuller and more round sound at the beginning of a note. Faster air is always the way to go. Because sure you can be loud, but you don't want your sound to be very thin. Faster solves this problem. I hope I didn't confuse anyone b/c Texas terminology tends to confuse a lot of people I speak with.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-07-19 13:26
B C G, Has the question of what grouping of notes need be louder/more-projecting? for your playing, been asked? Often [for me] on checking out basses, I find that its the lower clarion notes, mid-staff B, C, C#, D, D# that are weak, and the solution I [and Dave S?{et al} also?] prefer is to get a bass with "Double Register Keying", yes, it costs more and may require more adjusting, BUT its well worth it IMHO. Even with the least expensive "student" insts., this is an important factor to be considered in picking the better horns. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-07-19 15:19
To get power out of a bass clarinet you have to open your throat and oral cavity WAY up --- pretend you're trying to hold a large grapefruit inside your mouth while playing.
And you'll need a good mouthpiece (which, if you're playing a school horn with a stock mouthpiece, you are probably lacking!), and a solid, leak-free instrument.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-07-19 16:21
The B40 Vandoren Bass clarinet mouthpiece has a very big sound with excellent projection...
David Dow
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-07-19 16:44
David Dow wrote: "The B40 Vandoren Bass clarinet mouthpiece has a very big sound with excellent projection..."
True...if you get a good one. Like all mass-produced mouthpieces, Vandorens are highly variable in their playing qualities, so you might have to try at least a half-dozen B40s (or any other model) to find one that works well for you.
Charles Bay bass clarinet mouthpieces are very pricey but do tend to sound big and loud, if that's your goal.
Other mouthpieces worth trying (most have been already mentioned above) are Pomarico (crystal), Walter Grabner, Clark Fobes, J&D Hite, Borbeck, and Roger Garrett.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-07-19 17:09
Well said, both posts, Dave, I'll chime in on mps also. I like the Pomarico glasses and am very careful with my 2 bass and 1 alto cl mps. Your refacing of my #1 Pom is the best I've found in my assortment of 10-12 mps. The "run of the mill[ing] " Selmer C*s are not bad, and seem to make a good blank for a pro reface. Its prob worth a try! Much luck in a never-ending search. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2004-07-20 00:01
in addition to a high quality mpc ,i had great sucess with a bari synthetic bass clarinet reed in increasing volume and projection
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-07-20 14:45
The problem I've found with most synthetic reeds (and I include Bari) is that tone is sacrificed for volume/projection and convenience/longevity. Personally, I will not sacrifice even an iota of tone on bass clarinet for any reason --- tone is what we're paid for! Otherwise we sound like nothing more than a third-rate tenor sax.
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-07-21 00:06
Dolphy had a wonderful sound, so I'm curious as to how he comes into the conversation at this point.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-07-21 14:36
S20Dan,
Since you asked: I've always admired Dolphy's originality, range and improvisational skills, and always hated his sound. He has been a tremendous influence on the bass clarinet world, in both good and bad ways. He proved that bass clarinet could be a unique and versatile jazz voice, but on the flip side his sound has been misinterpreted by many younger players as being acceptable for symphonic and concert band music, which it most certainly is not.
To get back to the original question, sort of: Dolphy was able to play with power and projection because, among other things, he used a custom-made wide-open mouthpiece and fairly soft reeds. If you or I played such a setup in any self-respecting concert band or orchestra anywhere in the Western world, we'd be thrown out of the group in a minute and rightly so!
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2004-07-21 15:56
I agree with Dave that while Dolphy had an interesting sound that was well suited to the progressive jazz he was playing it wasn't a particularly rich or even pleasant sound. A little harsh to my ears, especially in the upper registers. Still I love listening to him. And I think he played on synthetic reeds which maybe is what super20dan was referring to.
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-07-21 19:49
I don't know that Dolphy even had one sound that he used over the entire course of his career. Listening to Epistrophy and It's Magic back to back, he sounds very different in both. His sound in Epistrophy really isn't all that great. More harsh, than anything. On It's Magic, however, he really sounds quite wonderful, especially in the lower notes. It's not something I would ever try to emulate in a concert band or symphony setting, but it would be neat to be able to pull out something similar for a small assortment of situations. It's definitely unique.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2004-07-21 22:23
sorry dave-but i just had to ask. also i wasnt implying that dolphy used plastic reeds but just that they work very well for me and i get a good tone out of them .good enough to stay in the community band for several years at least. i agree dolphys tone is to say the least "unique"
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Author: LeOpus1190s
Date: 2004-07-22 08:13
Sorry... past all the replying posts. Instead of thinking of more air, try thinking of faster air.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-07-22 17:44
Check the Dolphy scales in the Yusef Lateef Scale Book...alot of fun~
David Dow
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Author: DougR
Date: 2004-07-22 21:17
Well, for what it's worth, and to get back to the original question, I was lucky to have some lessons with Brian Hysong, bass clarinetist with the NY City Ballet, and he specifically addressed playing the horn loud enough to carry over a massive orchestra (only when necessary, of course).
The setup we worked out for me was a Selmer C85-115 mouthpiece and Marca No. 4 reeds. The mouthpiece has a big, open sound, and the reeds (which need to be shaved down a little to be playable) have plenty of wood in them. Nice round embouchre, taking in plenty of mouthpiece, too.
Then he recommended some standing-up warmups: slow descending quarter-note arpeggios and staccato ascending and descending arpeggios, during which you focus on supporting a good, solid fortissimo sound with your diaphragm. The object being to accustom your musculature to getting a really good sound that also happens to be nice and loud.
I'm happy with the results I get, and have no interest in shopping for other mouthpieces etc.
Best wishes! Let us know how you make out.
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