 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: LeOpus1190s
Date: 2004-07-19 03:32
I have two professional orchestral auditions in the month of August and I am with out a good R-13 A clarinet.
I have been hunting for over a year for an A clarionet but Buffet have just been turning out horrible horns and they are getting even worse. When I went to the Woodwind and Brasswind I was amazing with how horrible the R-13 A clarinet played. They were completely out of tune, the grunting went to F instead of being at G. D/G was extremely stuffy.
These horns will probably pass for kids who can't tell the difference but what about the people who need good clarinets in order to make a living?
If anyone knows of a source of recently good R-13 A clarinets let me know.
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Author: Keil
Date: 2004-07-19 03:37
Personally, I recommend Vincent Marinelli @ Marinelli Woodwinds in Delaware. I got my A from him and i'm nothing but pleased with it and i plan to go back when i go to purchase another Bb and Eb.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-07-19 03:39
Parhaps you might consider going back to LeBlanc? LOL, just a thought. You won't win the job though!
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-07-19 03:40
Why do you feel you need an R13? Your handle suggests an affinity for LeBlancs...do you think that you won't get the job(s) if you don't have the "right" instrument???
Katrina
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Author: LeOpus1190s
Date: 2004-07-19 04:33
"you should be able to win the job if it's for you without a new A clarinet."
I have no A clarinet. I sold my other one in order to fund a new Buffet a Clarinet. I have never owned a Buffet A clarinet before but have had two on loan in the past.
For those who say I should play a leblanc, I will pass, look at my screen name, I used to play on Leblanc Opus's, at one time but good buffets me my needs, just like good Leblancs meets certain clarinetists needs. To each their own.
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2004-07-19 04:56
Sorry, I misunderstood.
I wish you the best of luck in finding one and with auditions. Don't get worried and then buy something you're not satisfied with though. Although I'm sure you know that, I thought I'd say it anyway so you might remember more because pressure can affect one's decisions greatly.
Bradley
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-07-19 09:44
Bradley- I play concertos and feel the same way, but at a recent audition, was asked what I played. Who can say if it affected the outcome. My point is, they asked.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-07-19 11:05
So just put a Buffet sticker on the Le Blanc, and tell them it is a Buffet.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-07-19 11:49
That's my secret dream Gordon - to win a principal position in, say, Chicago, and after I retire upon a very successful career spanning at least two decades, reveal to the clarinet world that I have indeed been playing on LeBlanc this whole time and that their ears have deceived them!
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2004-07-19 12:14
There is nothing wrong with LeBlanc or any other good clarinet, just perceptions. I play a LeBlanc Bb and a Yamaha Custom "SE" A clarinet. I've been offered good money from Buffet players, who say it plays better than their R13A's, for the A but not taken it.
jbutler
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-07-19 12:33
LeOpus, sorry to hear about your troubles. As a dealer, we have seen some very fine R13 As coming through in the last 3 months, so they are definitely out there to be had. This is speculation only, but you may have hit WWBW after they had been picked clean by the pros. My word of advice would be this -- several orchestral clarinetists around the country provide instrument selection services for a fee. Rather than try to hit the right store at the right time to find the right instrument, particularly if you are on a clock, contact an artist that you respect, and inquire about help in locating an instrument.
I suggest this for two reasons: First, in my experience these pros are very effective at selecting concert instruments. S. Drucker picked a set for me back in the days of Leon Russianoff and those horns got me into Northwestern. No regrets there. Second, the pros, particularly those that are official Buffet artists, are likely to get a look at the really special instruments before everyone else. Maybe that doesn't seem fair, but their names do carry clout, and Buffet and the dealers will take care of them.
I have had great experiences on multiple ocassions acquiring instruments this way; same for my students. If this approach interests you and you don't know where to start, I would be happy to give you names and contact info via email of some of the pros I have worked with.
Best of luck with your quest. MDS
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2004-07-19 13:40
Speaking about your dream gig in the CSO.....Larry Combs plays LeBlanc........
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-07-19 14:22
Greg Smith has a service (or used to -- it's not mentioned on his site) where he selects an R-13, has it Brannenized, and matches it with one of his mouthpieces and a Chadash barrel. It won't be cheap, but it will be good.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-07-20 07:47
msloss I doubt the horns got you into Northwestern! But still, it couldn't have hurt!
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-07-20 11:24
As a stop-gap measure, contact Dave Spiegelthal or John Butler (netizens of this BBS) for a secondhand clarinet in A.
You may find one of their less fabled instruments will not only satisfy your needs, but carry it's weight longer than expected...
Alternately, find the cheapest clarinet in A and have it tweaked for best response to fit your needs.
The entire 'hand selected' notion smacks of graft...
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-07-20 13:56
OK, the horns didn't get me in. But the less-than-stellar pair of 10S clarinets I was playing on would have kept me out. Interestingly, a pair I naively acquired as a youngun without the guidance of a pro (and no everybody, I'm not saying Selmer is bad. I'm saying my set was bad).
SB, FWIW, I have to disagree with your opinion of hand-selection. As I've said numerous times on this board, the instrument is made out of (formerly) living material, and there is a lot of hand-work involved in their finishing, no matter how mechanized the process is. This all results in slight variations from instrument to instrument. Whether those variations amount to distinctions between "good" and "bad" is debatable. However, the differences are real.
Guys like Mark Nuccio, Greg Smith, Bodhan Hilash, Don Ambler, Bil Jackson, et al understand these variations, and can pick out an instrument that matches the characteristics a buyer seeks. That might be more resistance, brighter/darker, sweetness vs. projection, and so on. $150 - $250 (~10% of the clarinet's cost) is an inconsequential investment to save the time and heartache that LeOpus and many others experience trying to find that perfect instrument for them.
Now, we all wait with breathless (but well supported from the diaphragm) anticipation to find out what LeOpus does...
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-07-20 15:36
I don't disagree about the reality of the differences.
I have a fundamental problem with adding middlemen to the purchase.
I have seen the same arguement of hand-selection apply to Greenlines.
My suggestion is that no one instrument will ever encompass ALL the desired qualities; therefore buying the cheapest available instrument and sending it off for modification is both more expedient and cost effective.
The best R13 A clarinet I ever played looked like it had been under a truck, had both a traditional and carbonfiber crack repair, plus twenty years of tonehole adjustments. It wasn't for sale at any price.
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Author: Gazebo Dealer
Date: 2004-07-20 16:09
I dunno if anyone would be interested, but the Assistant Principal of the CSO, John Bruce Yeh, plays on Yamaha clarinets. He is an amazing Eb player, and I can say that cause I went to a performance this past March where they played Prokofiev's 5th Symphony (very nice Eb solo in the 2nd mvt.) I had no idea that Larry Combs played on LeBlanc clarinets, but then again "his" mouthpiece is a LeBlanc. And what about current Selmers or vintage Selmers? A friend of mine has a vintage Selmer given to her by an uncle, and she had it appraised. The value came out to $5000 dollars, so some of the older Selmers (if you could hunt one down) would be nice.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-07-20 16:26
I have an off-the-wall suggestion for a possible "A" clarinet solution for the budget-minded. Professionals and Buffet Snobs please read no further.
I just overhauled an Amati ACL311 wood Bb clarinet I bought for next to nothing on eBay (and I was expecting next to nothing from the instrument). It's a nicely made, hefty, comfortable little instrument but on initial playing I found it to be rather stuffy and fuzzy, with a few notes conspicuously out of tune. Even though the skin pads it came with sealed OK, I tore it down for a complete leather-pads overhaul, and discovered (somewhat to my surprise) that the toneholes were 'straight' (non-undercut). So, I undercut all the toneholes, flared out the shoulders of the large tonehole cutouts on the bottom joint for better venting, raised all the key heights slightly towards the same goal, and corrected the intonation of a couple notes by minor modification of the affected toneholes. Presto! It plays very, very well now, as well as any clarinet I've tried -- no stuffiness, no fuzziness, good intonation, even has a clear 'pinch' throat Bb. I've adopted it as my #1 daily player.
The point of this rambling monologue is to make the following suggestion: Perhaps one could purchase a wood Amati "A" clarinet, as they are very reasonably priced nowadays and the quality is far better than in the past --- then send it out to someone (I'd suggest the Brannens but they probably would refuse to work on an Amati) for similar improvements --- in such a fashion one might end up with an excellent "A" clarinet for well under a thousand dollars.
My flame suit and flak jacket are both on (gettin' kinda warm with all this protective gear in the middle of summer!). Gotta think outside the Buffet box, y'all.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-07-20 17:21
David Spiegelthal wrote:
> My flame suit and flak jacket are both on (gettin' kinda warm
> with all this protective gear in the middle of summer!). Gotta
> think outside the Buffet box, y'all.
No flame suit needed. I've been touting the virtues of Amati frequently on this bulletin board - a search under "GBK Amati" (no quotes) will give you lots to read, including a review of the top of the line Amati A clarinet.
For the budget minded, Amati represents a very fair value at a good, competitive price ... GBK (owner of 12 different R-13 clarinets, an Amati A clarinet, a Forte clarinet, and about 15 others, too numerous to mention)
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-07-20 18:52
In agreement with GBK and David S on this one...the A Buffet r 13 is a real product dissapointment. The tendency towards a stuffy sound and slow response is a real damper on any serious clarinetist.
As to Amati I have not tried any of these...but some of these could certainly be very fine if they are made properly. The danger is buying a clarinet that does not play closely to the Bb you are used to...
David Dow
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Author: Tom J.
Date: 2004-07-20 21:48
Yeah, it seems easier to find a great R-13 Bb than a passable A.
However, I now have two great R-13 As, one selected at RDG in Los Angeles from about 2 dozen, and one I found in a music store which already had some work.
Both needed some tweaking which I had done at Boosey (now MMG) in Sun Valley.
Also, a new barrel can make a world of difference on an A. The Chadash barrel seems particularly well suited to all of my R-13 Bb and A horns.
Tom J.
Post Edited (2004-07-20 21:51)
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-07-21 02:17
I guess to each his own. I enjoy the stuffy sound and slow response of my R13 A. All of my teachers, colleagues, students and friends who profess to be serious clarinetists seem willing to accept those limitations as well. But then, it is a requirement that you suffer to be a member of the Buffet Mafia. Alas, every time I pull my barrel out, they keep pushing it back in...
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-07-21 02:43
FWIW- last year at the conference I tried virtually every R13A there, including those at the Buffet table. A couple friends tried them and listened as well. I didn't find any that I thought was a great instrument. Some were pretty good, many suffered from those typical flaws people complain about. There are some out there, but I agree much harder to come by than a Bb.
You might consider 1)trying some of the other models of Buffets as well, (RC, Festival, etc) and see what you find. 2) narrow it down to the best couple and then see if a different barrel (Moennig, Chadash) helps it. 3) find the best one you can and having one of the techs out there, (Chadash, Backun, Alphin, Brannen, etc) tweak it. Good Luck.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-07-21 03:48
I use the Festival Buffets over the R13s for the simple reason the A clarinet seems freer and more responsive without the stuffy low c and c sharp.
David Dow
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Author: Steve B.
Date: 2004-07-21 17:38
My son's teacher has a Chadash A clarinet that sounds and plays great.
Steve
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Author: Greg
Date: 2004-07-21 18:44
The problem with the new Buffet R - 13 clarinets is they are made of pulp grenadilla wood unlike the older ones that were still made of cane.
[ snipped - GBK ]
If you really want to get a nice clarinet, try one made by Peter Eaton. A freind of mine puchased one and wow!!!! They're expensive but worth it. The guy's parents had some bucks.
Best of luck!
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-07-21 19:43
Greg, thank you for your post, but your first statement is pretty far away from the facts. Only one specific group of new Buffet clarinets, those identified as "Greenline", are made from a composite of grenadilla powder and a resin. This is not a "problem", but is in fact an attempt by the company to offer an environmentally stable alternative to wood which shares its acoustic and resonant characteristics but is not subject to major dimensional changes or cracking. At the same time, they continue to offer their complete line in grenadilla, which is very much not "cane", but is an African blackwood also known as Mpingo.
On your other point there would be less disagreement. Mr. Eaton does make fine instruments.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-07-21 19:48
LeOpus -
The instruments that makers (and particularly Buffet) bring to the ClarinetFest are usually very good, particularly since Francois Kloc is there to make sure they're in top shape. If you're anywhere near Maryland, it would be worthwhile to go there just to visit the displays (which, at least in the past, are open without fee) and try out instruments.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-07-21 22:53
You might try getting an appointment at a Buffet distribution center. I'm getting an appointment (set up by my teacher, so I don't know the info, sorry) shortly in L.A. for my new A. Apparently, they have a whole bunch (dozens? hundreds?) of them on hand, which you can keep trying until you find one you like.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2004-07-22 01:17
My original Buffet I bought in 1970. Oh what a beauty. So, I decided to get an R13 a few years ago. I was so disappointed. I sold it to a friend/student and went back to my 1970's clarinet which still plays like a dream. I don't know what the answer is to all this but..... just thought I'd put in my opinion.
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