 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: martind
Date: 2004-06-24 19:40
I recently purchased a clarinet that utilizes the german-oehler
system of fingering. Yes, the fingerings are quite different
than the french boehm system. I began clarinet studies on
the albert fingering system over 50 odd year ago and found
some similarity in fingerings. I also studied oboe, flute and
bassoon and found the oboe fingerings very useful.
I would be interested in discussing this subject area with
anyone who plays this type of german instrument. Oh, this
instrument came with a Hans Zinner #3 mouthpiece. This
is also a subject for discussion.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-06-24 22:24
Looks like we both "go back a ways", Martind. Nice t' meetcha... 
I don't know if it would be any benefit to you, but I've played Albert/Oehler system clarinets since fourth grade. That may not seem so long ago unless you consider that fourth-grade for me was in the early '40s. I also play Boehm so, although it's not my preference, I could play a gig on one if I had to.
I'm presently happy with a Bundy 3 mouthpiece that I use for everything. While I don't know anything about your Zinner mpc, I'm interested in mpc discussions -- although I'm ordinarily pretty noncommittal about the topic.
What make horn did you purchase?
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
Post Edited (2004-06-25 05:01)
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2004-06-25 07:11
Hi, martind:
I play the "simple system" clarinet and have only played that system since about 1962 or so. If you have any questions, let me know. I play Greek ethnic folk music, but have jammed on many occasions with other types of ethnic music, especially some Balkan music and a little bit of New Orleans style jazz.
Good luck with your clarinet.
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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Author: thomas.b
Date: 2004-06-25 10:52
Hi martind,
This mp is pretty good and has here in Germany a good reputation. You should try Vandoren White Master Reeds for this mp , but which is the model /manufacturer of the clarinet?
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Author: k_leister
Date: 2004-06-25 19:04
Hi there!
I have been playing French system clarinets for 4 years until I switched to German system clarinets 3 years ago. I hope the following information is useful.
Brands:
There have been a few. The most prominent one is Oskar Oehler in Berlin. Fredeirch Arthur Uebel, Ludwig Warschewski are both his students and remarkable clarinet manufacturers before the 60's. All of these clarinets have been commonly used by musicians in Germany, and particularly Berlin, before the 70's. In the mid-60's, Herbert von Karajan has bought a pair of Herbert Wurlitzer for the Berlin Philharmonic, the very pair which have then been occupied by Karl Leister unitl his retirement. Herbert Wurlitzer are famous for its precison in pitch and superb craftmanship, and it has risen to popularity among professional German orchestra especially after Karjan's purchase.
Other German clarinet brands include Clemens Meinl, Gustav Mollehauer, Todt, Hynerg, all of which make superb clarinets.
Some musician and brand combinations:
Karl Leister first played Uebel and now plays Herbert Wurlitzer Modell-100 c
Alfred Burkner (sololist in Berlin Phil berfore Leister) plays a pair of Oskar Oehler
Peter Rieckhoff (Chief Professor of Woodwinds in UdK Berlin) loves his Uebel most, though he plays many other clarinets too
Heinrich Geuser (sololist in Berlin Radio in the 50's) plays Uebel
Dieter Kloecker plays a Oehler Bb and a Warschewski A.
Ewald Koch (solist in RIAS-symphone in the 60's) plays Uebel.
Mouthpieces:
The Germans have been using close facing mouthpiece with stiff reeds. Most people use wooden mouthpiece sthough some prefer plastic ones for their preicision in pitch. This is true until the 70's when people start using open mouthpiece with thin reeds. This "open" is in fact considered to be "closed" using French clarinet terminology. Among the first one who start using these is Karl Leister. In my opinion, thin reeds are much easier to control in many aspects but lacks personality. The difference of the two can be heard in recordings of the Berlin Philharmonic in the 60's and the 80's. The "new" German sound, in my opinion, has a lot of French influence.
Reeds:
Most German players make their own reeds, while some buy the commercial ones and work on them. Steuer is the one that is still producing stiff reeds among many of other kinds of reeds they produce. Vandoren started producing German reeds some time back, and I heard that they designed the reeds espcially for one or two mouthpieces that they took as samples. Foglietta is another excellent reed manufacturer that I know of, who produces a wide range of reeds.
Zinner makes a wide range of mouthpieces. I am not sure how open #3 is. But if it is a open mouthpiece, I'd defintely recommend Vandoren White Master or Foglietta C*.
Btw, is there anyone who knows anything about the climate (especially humdity) and music in Vermont? Many thanks.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2004-06-25 22:26
Thanks Kevin for a very good and informative posting. I believe you have all of the facts down since I can veryfy a lot of it from the information I've come across myself. However, this one sounds odd:
In the mid-60's, Herbert von Karajan has bought a
> pair of Herbert Wurlitzer for the Berlin Philharmonic, the very
> pair which have then been occupied by Karl Leister unitl his
> retirement.
I've never heard this one before. Do you know anything more on how it came about?
Alphie
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Author: kennychw
Date: 2004-06-26 00:31
Hi all
I have a Richard Keilwerth Top Sound 2000 for 4 years. Mouthpiece is probably made from a Zinner blank. I use Vandoren White Master reeds. I think the fingers are more complex... Like how do you trill from Eb1 to F on a german system?
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-06-26 01:31
Kenny -
I don't know how to play an Eb1 on a Bb soprano clarinet. Do you mean first line Eb to first space F - Eb/F-4 ? If so, it's quite easy. You finger Eb using the ring finger sliver key and trill to F using the side (trill) F key. You can also, in a pinch (a very quick trill), trill to F using the first (index) finger as your triller -- not recommended for long trills as the F with this fingering is quite sharp.
- ron b -
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Author: k_leister
Date: 2004-06-26 18:02
Alphie -
To my knowledge, the popularity of Herbert Wurlitzer arises only after Karjan's purchase. Before that, people in Berlin Philharmonic used Oskar Oehler clarinets. Mr. Leister himself, as far as I know, used F. A. Uebel clarinets until the late-60's. One of the clarinetist at Leister's regime is a member of the Wurlitzer's family, whose clarinets are Herbert Wurltizer's. I think Karajan or Leister himself come across the high accuracy in pitch of Wurltizer clarinets through that clarinettist. I was told that Karajan thus made a special order to Herbert Wurlitzer under the name of Berlin Philharmonic. And so, Leister has to leave that special pair of clarinets to his successor in Berlin Phil.
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Author: k_leister
Date: 2004-06-26 18:14
Hi all,
I have a few questions. How's the survival of German clarinets outside Germany. As I live in a rather warm and humid country, I wonder how do you proctect your clarinets when you travel outdoor at temperature below zero.
And perhaps what do you think about the German sound?
Thanks for your response
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-06-26 19:41
I can only speak from personal experience, K :
I bought a Moennig Bros. Bb clarinet ('Albert') when I was in Germany in, oh, about '56 ro '57 as best I can recall now. It was played indoors and out of doors there, in mild summer weather and in freezing cold conditions. It returned with me to California where it also was played outside some, in very hot weather, but mostly indoors where it's more comfortable. I've never done anything to "protect" the instrument. Its wood is in fine condition, save for a few scratches here and there and its keywork is still original and functioning fine as well.
I know several Albert players (strong preference for Buffet, by the way) in my region (central CA) and we're all doing well - both generally and musically.
So, from my personal experience, K, I would have to say that, both physically and artistically, German[system] clarinets and their players are alive and well outside Germany.
- ron b -
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Author: kennychw
Date: 2004-06-27 04:24
hi K_liester
I stay in a tropical climate too. During the first year of its arrival from Germany, the joint tenons expanded and I have to send it to a workshop to sand it down. German sound? You mean a warm and dark sound? I quite like it. Can't get it from my Buffet RC. BTW, did anyone notice that the new RCs bore design are following the German bore? (flare starts at bell, not lower joint)
Hi Ron
Yup, I mean first line Eb..
To all
If you don't stay in Germany and your German clarinet requires attention, will your local workshop be able to help you? Where can you find those tiny pads?
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-06-27 05:31
Tiny pads are no problem, Kenny. Ferree's sells pads starting at 6.5mm and they sell supplies to "ordinary" folks. If the cup is smaller than that you might need to use cork - problem solved. The only misgiving I might have with servicing a German clarinet is if the repair tech has never worked on them. They might do all right but the sequence of regulating a 'German' clarinet is different than for a Boehm and that could be frustrating if you're not familiar with the precedure. Many North American techs, the younger ones, have never seen or worked on anything but Boehms their entire careers. (That's primarily what got me interested in doing-it-myself )
- r b -
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Author: ned
Date: 2004-06-27 06:48
""I know several Albert players (strong preference for Buffet, by the way) in my region (central CA) and we're all doing well - both generally and musically.""
ronb
I have a Buffet too - circa 1911 I believe - plays quite OK - likes to be warmed up before playing correct pitch.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-06-27 07:09
I love listening to those old Buffets, John - wonderful sound, indeed. For one reason or another I never owned one though. I've seen and touched several Buffets but it seems that the price was either way out of reach or it wasn't for sale at the time I had the dough. I guess it just wasn't meant to be....
- rb -
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Author: happyamateur
Date: 2004-06-28 01:40
I have a very nice Uebel 632 oehler, lovely instrument, lovely sound. Unfortunatly I find it to be painful to play - almost unplayable. I've got small hands with a resulting small finger stretch so I can just barely reach the lh pinky keys and the rh ones are nearly impossible. I never would have guessed that there would be such a difference but, alas it was not meant to be for me at least.
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Author: martind
Date: 2004-06-28 19:13
Hello John,
It's nice to make your acquaintance. Your background in greek music
and the "simple clarinet" sounds most interesting. What make of clarinet
do you play and what mouthpiece/reed do you use? Is the german
fingering system played primarily in Greece? Central California?
Regards, Martin
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