 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-06-21 03:12
It's on eBay, but I won't post any real identifying marks...
I do have a question though, because when I looked at the photo there, it seems to have a tone hole through the upper joint/lower joint tenon. It is an Albert horn, and the hole is for the first hole in the lower joint. The C#/G# key is entirely on the upper joint, so it's definitely not for an "articulated" C#/G#.
Does anyone know why the tenon would be so long as to require this modification???
Katrina
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-06-21 13:34
Katrina - There were/are several differing Articulated C#/G# key system constructions among the competing makers at the turn of the century. I took a quickie search out of sheer curiousity, and didn't find it. Does it have a maker's name so as to reduce the retrieval [false drop], please? Help, Al Rice, also. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-06-21 16:25
Any clue would be helpful. It'll take hours and hours otherwise :|
- ron b -
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-06-21 17:15
I think we need to discuss the definition of ARTICULATED as it relates to Clarinet keywork.
An articulated key can occur anywhere, on either joint. When we say "articulated" we are referring to the manner in which the key operates. There are several systems. You see them a lot on vintage Bb's & on (soprano) Eb (1-piece & 2-piece E-fers).
Post Edited (2004-06-21 17:15)
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-06-21 19:15
I sent Ron B the actual link, but I'll post another "identifying clue" here so as not (hopefully) to break any rules. The auction is over tomorrow, so hopefully you'll get a chance to peek at it...
The maker is listed as Lucian Bassi.
Katrina
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-06-21 19:37
Very well put, Mark W, however it appears that "articulate" etc,etc, is a multi-meaning bunch of words, as my 2 largest dictionaries [#1 is a 4" thick Webster, the library has the 12" Web. !] "clearly" bring out. Avoiding the speech-phonetics meanings, the [our] "joint-jointing" [mech. eng.] meaning is "poorly" discussed therein. I'll bet the Mech. Engrs. Handbook would be much better, will look it up, unless one of our posters has both it and any interest in doing so. [?John Morton??] Also needed might be some consideration of normally open/normally closed pad language, also sprung-to open/closed terminology . As I see it, to answer the U J vs L J - location question, it depends on the mech-designer's choice, on a single-body horn, saxes, some cls, no problem, for 2 piece horns, most [sops] keying appears to be on the [longer] L J with only the tone hole thru the tenon, however my Selmer bass cl has it all on the U J, with only the "pad-closing" finger on the L J. 'Nuff of this brain-teasing for now. Have FUN, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: javier garcia m
Date: 2004-06-21 22:10
according to the picture, the hole in the tenon is for the first RH finger (than controls B-C and F#-G). If you look at the hole, it is very close to the end of the female LJ tenon.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-06-22 01:48
First, thank you for the look-see at this instrument. In answer to your question, Katrina, my best-shot guess is that the B/F# hole goes through the tenon because of the length of the top tenon.
The upper and lower joints are almost the same length in order to allow the C#/G# key to be in a better position and better hole size than most. That's been debated ad nauseum, of course, but that looks to me like what the maker had in mind. That configuration also puts the RH index finger hole [B/F#] through the middle tenon, which is no problem at all since there's no keywork involved and alignment of that hole (a very "strong" note on all Alberts) isn't critical. The [upper joint] A and Ab/G# keys are totally separate, British fashion. It appears to me that the side Eb/Bb (trill side) key is either missing or not part of this clarinet's key system (typical of simple system though) - which, if so, is rather odd because the horn has the modern patent C# mechanism. Looks like a nice horn but one that you'd be better off trying before buying if at all possible.
Thank for the tour, Kat 
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-06-22 01:59
FWIW, Ron, I wasn't gonna bid on it.  I just thought it looked like an unusual design for a Simple/Albert horn...and thought maybe someone else here might have known about more of these types.
And I hadn't even noticed any of the other keywork! That one shot with the tenon with the hole through had me completely absorbed!
Katrina
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