 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2004-01-11 15:19
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/11/arts/music/11OEST.html
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: William
Date: 2004-01-11 16:45
There was also an artical in the International Musician on this subject as well. Just wondering, JM, what is the usage practice of plugs on Broadway--and if so, what kind??
(you'll have to speak up a bit.................)
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2004-01-11 17:53
What did you say?
The plugs are widely used on Broadway and in every venue here in NYC.
I have played with the plugs in at: the NY Philharmonic, rock concerts, loud recording sessions, contemporary music concerts, and Broadway.
If you, or any musician, are in a dangerously loud playing situation, protect your hearing with a good set of plugs. That is, if you want to continue to hear well into your old age.
I do not receive any remuneration from any ear protection company, but I recommend: http://www.howardleight.com
Their many varieties of plugs are helpful for any situation.
Good luck,
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-01-11 20:15
Yes well, it's annoying that you have to register to be able to read this paper online. I can't be bothered going through the process.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2004-01-11 21:59
"Yes well, it's annoying that you have to register to be able to read this paper online. I can't be bothered going through the process."
Your loss...
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-01-11 23:53
John ... the pit in the Opera Theatre here is so bad that the trumpets and trombones live in a perspex cage. It's about 5 foot high, and designed so thier noise (er music) exits upwards out of the pit (Sydney's pit is like Beyreuth - completely under the stage). The problem with this, of course, is ensemble. They cannot hear the rest of the orchestra when they are playing. Very similar to Beyreuth accoustically - bad for the orchestra and it means the musicians have to play like robots and follow the conductor's beat flawlessly.
Actually, it's been a cause of serious problems for many years, I've played in it and won't ever play in it again until it's fix. There is major renovations scheduled this year (or was that next) and the opera company will move to a temporary home.
No matter, trumets are the main problem, closely followed by percussionists (particuarly noisy and almost invariable positions just behind the wind section.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2004-01-12 00:28
This inovation is very good for orchestra purposes. We have used it for several years now with a very good result. I do sit four feet from the bell of the principal trumpet. This is better than earplugs for I can still hear everything around me. It just reduces the noice.
http://www.hearwig.com
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2004-01-12 03:32
Thanks, Micaela. But the article makes some good points about hearing protection.
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-01-12 13:55
....probably the reason for the shape of Dizzy's horn
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-01-14 23:29
I am in complete agreement with the importance of protecting our hearing; e.g., I have always worn hearing protection for anything noisy like cutting grass, blowing leaves, vacuuming, or using power tools. At 58, my hearing seems to be good and I assume that wearing protection has helped.
After reading the NY Times article, I tried practising with "general purpose" foam ear plugs for a few hours and found it an interesting experience. Most notes didn't cause as much sensation with ear plugs, but some actually seemed more stimulating. Towards the end of my practise session, I removed the plugs and found that my tone was much less controlled than usual. There was no one else around to provide objective feedback and it is possible that I was mistaken.
Next I plan to find some musician's earplugs to see if they are more useful.
My thanks to JJM for raising this subject.
Hans
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2004-01-15 04:13
Hans:
I'm glad you're interested in protecting your hearing. You asked,
"Next I plan to find some musician's earplugs to see if they are more useful."
I suggest you try a very comfortable, affordable, and useful pair of ears plugs made by Howard Leight. Many of us here in NYC use their plugs.
Howard Leight MAX Series (NRR 33) pre-shaped foam earplugs
http://www.howardleight.com/
Good luck,
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: William
Date: 2004-01-15 15:05
I got my mine by visiting a local medical facilities audio throphy clinic whose technician made wax models of my ear canals which were "sent in" and used to make custom plugs for each of my ears. They have inserts for 15 or 30 decibel reduction and I use the former for all of my "blastissimo" gig environments. Pricey at around $150.00 (USA), but quite effective in reducing the loud sounds while allowing the ensemble to penetrate. Not perfect, however, as it still makes my clarinet sound like a Kazzoo--to me, that is. (maybe if I switched to the trombone...........)
I wish that I--now 63--would have got them (and used them) at a much younger age as I now have constant tinitus in both ears, sometimes so loud that I cannot hear the birds at my feeder outside my window--or understand diaolog on my favorite TV (CSI) programs. It's like an automobile tire with a constant small leak. But I use my expensive custom set of plugs now to help preserve what level of hearing I still have. And I advise others to "get with it" also, or lose it. To a musician, hearing is almost as important as breathing.
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2004-01-15 18:33
Neither the Hearwig or HowardLeight sites seem to have ordering information. Do you have to request a quote in the "feedback" sections?
John Moses: If you use hearing protection 1) do you use double or single lip embouchure? 2) do you use a mpc patch?
Thanks
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2004-01-16 00:15
Hi Ralph:
You can order the HowardLeight plugs I mentioned earlier in this post from any of the larger suppliers of hearing protection on the Web (check on Google for "ear plugs"). Again, I do not receive any remuneration from any ear protection company.
I have been using all kinds of ear plugs for over 20 years of professional playing. The other 20 years, before I got smart, were spent in pain from loud blasts of all sorts.
If you have the time and money to get a "molded" set of plugs made, go for it. I've had a few sets made for me over the years, but I find, in practical use, I like the simple foam HowardLeight MAX Series (NRR 33) to be the best for me. Some of my friends and colleagues are nearly deaf as a result of playing all those years with unprotected ears.
Get some good plugs, please!
I play single-lip, use plugs, and can be seen playing, with the plugs in my ears, in the NY Times, Sunday Arts & Leisure Section 1/11/04.
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: clarinetmama
Date: 2004-01-16 00:26
My dad, once a fine clarinetist doesn't hear worth a crap anymore. It is a tragedy that this could have been prevented if he had ever protected his hearing. All the years of being around loud noise ruined his hearing forever. Just when I was becoming a good player myself he could no longer hear well enough to play with me.
He won't admit how bad his hearing is, but we are all aware of it. And sadly he is too proud to do anything about it. Makes us all crazy having him say, "What?" all the time.
In orchestra I sit next to the tympani. And in Wind Ensemble we are playing some very loud pieces. Granted the earplugs take some getting used to, but I do want to be able to hear (and play) years from now.
Jean
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2004-01-16 03:06
Ralph:
Yes, I use a mouthpiece patch. They were made for me by Herb Blayman, former 1st clarinetist at the Met in NYC.
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2004-01-16 15:12
Ralph, the hearwig you can order from here. There are no order facilities on line for this. It's quite expensive so it's mainly recomended for institutions like theaters and concert halls.
http://www.hearwig.com/contact.html
Alphie
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-06-02 14:09
I had my hearing tested yesterday by an ear/nose/throat specialist and he found that there has been some slight loss. At nearly 59 years of age, I didn't expect it to be perfect. According to the doctor, the loss was most likely attributable to my having worked at an airport very close to turbojet engines 40 years ago. In those days hearing protection was available only for those working close to jet engines.
I asked about musician's ear plugs (to protect me when I am working in a 10x10 practice room with three students playing altissimo) and he sent me to a hearing aid business that provides these as custom made plugs. They made a mold of the insides of my ears for a perfect fit. It will take about two weeks to get the plugs.
My thanks to John Moses for raising this topic.
Hans
P.S. - to help reduce the tinnitus, my E/N/T doctor recommended taking zinc.
Post Edited (2004-06-02 14:23)
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-06-16 20:16
I received my custom-made, vented, 15 db musician's ear plugs today and just finished trying them out. The claims made for the "musician's plugs"; i.e., that they would produce even attenuation, were exaggerated or misrepresentation.
In the chalumeau register I was unable to differentiate the notes to tell if I was playing the right notes. In the clarion and altissimo registers they did not interfere with my ability to differentiate. In the altissimo, with the plugs, I was able to play notes that otherwise would have caused me discomfort or pain.
These are not the best solution for me, since I like to play in the chalumeau occasionally, so I will try some from a safety supply store at some future date.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-06-16 20:35
hans wrote:
> I received my custom-made, vented, 15 db musician's ear plugs
> today and just finished trying them out. The claims made for
> the "musician's plugs"; i.e., that they would produce even
> attenuation, were exaggerated or misrepresentation.
>
Or, perchance, you have hearing loss centered on the chalumeau range and the reduction in amplitude brought the level down below your discrimination threshold (improbable, but possible).
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-06-17 13:34
The good news is, more and more organisations are catching on to protecting their musician's ears - my youth orchestra just ordered some of those stand-like things that sit behind your head for the back row of the woodwinds!
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2004-06-17 13:53
Hi Hans:
I'm sorry you're having a problem with your new plugs.
You said,
"I received my custom-made, vented, 15 db musician's ear plugs today and just finished trying them out. The claims made for the "musician's plugs"; i.e., that they would produce even attenuation, were exaggerated or misrepresentation."
I also had some problems with my custom made, very $$$, plugs. So, I suggest you try my original suggestion on the post above. The rubber foam, inexpensive plugs work just fine. I've used them here in NYC at every imaginable venue; from a STYX rock concert, to Broadway pits, to the NY Philharmonic, and they work just fine.
Try the plugs made by:
HowardLeight MAX Series (NRR 33)
Good luck,
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-06-17 18:11
Hans -
The response to ear plugs varies greatly. When I had to march in the West Point Band directly in front of the world's loudest, blattyest bugle player, I would stuff Kleenex in my ears (since foam plugs weren't available yet). I found that I couldn't play at all -- not even make a tone. I was missing some sort of essential feedback, and it felt like I had a cork stuck in the barrel. I ended up only pretending to play, which hardly mattered since clarinets can't be heard on the parade field.
That's not an option for John, who's playing an actual, solo part, or for you. It may take a fair amount of experimenting to find an appropriate amount of attenuation, and probably even more work to match what you hear through the ear plugs to the kind of sound you're making, but it's worth the struggle.
Keep at it and let us know how you're doing.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: larryb
Date: 2004-06-17 19:43
would tilting all brass instrument horns up (a la Dizzy Gillespie) or even back (a la French Horns) help at all (at least for those sitting directly in front of the brass)?
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-06-17 20:42
John and Ken,
Thanks for your input.
Today I went back to the hearing aid store and discussed my disappointment with a senior staff member (who also played clarinet in a former life). It turns out that I had misunderstood what was meant by "vented" (the vent is not the canal/diaphragm combination in the plugs) and that my plugs were not, in fact, vented (although that is what I had asked for originally).
They are now on their way back to the manufacturer to have vents created and the staff member thought that this would improve their performance.
I hope to report success in a few weeks. My "Plan B" is to order the HowardLeight plugs if the custom plugs can't be adjusted to be useful.
Thanks again for your help.
Hans
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-06-17 21:20
larryb -
Adolf Sax thought of it. His saxhorn family of brasses had the bells pointing over the players' shoulders, to let them be heard when the band led a parade. See http://www2.mackey.miyazaki.miyazaki.jp/MusicRoom/saxhorn/images/OTS-Saxhorn.jpg.
Unfortunately, in the Army (and particularly at West Point), the rule is "nothing is ever done for the first time, but if it happens for a second time, it becomes a tradition." Saxhorns would be great, but bugles is what you get.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-06-26 00:31
The next stage in my efforts to get my custom-made ear plugs to work....
I picked up my ear plugs today. The manufacturer had decided that they could not be given venting and installed 9 db diaphragms (with reduced protection) instead. This resulted in an improvement except for the mid-chalumeau range, where tone discrimination is still unsatisfactory.
I'll try them for a few weeks to see if they grow on me. If they don't, when I regain the desire to experiment I'll send for some HowardLeight plugs.
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2004-06-26 04:27
Hans:
It sounds like you're having a problem with your ear plugs manufacturer, get rid of them, they are not working properly for you.
Local 802, here in NYC, realized the need for good, professional ear plugs years ago, so they make free plugs available to all members who need them. The company in NYC is:
Radio Partner/Scientific Hearing Center
243 West 30th Street
New York, NY 10001
212-967-7628
Give them a call, or write to them, for advice on a good set of professional ear plugs. In the meantime, why not try a pair if the foam plugs I've suggested in the posts above? If you'd like, I'd be glad to send you a set of my type of ear plugs to help you protect your hearing until you are able to get a better set made.
Good luck,
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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