 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Suki
Date: 1999-12-20 22:33
I was given a clarinet that has the following markings:
a lyre above an oval that says Evette, Paris, France, inside; "made by Buffet Campton"; "master model" at the bottom. I really don't know anything about what kind of clarinet it is and would like some advice on how to care for it, if it has any monetary value, is it an appropriate clarinet for a sixth grader to use for lessons. Any help/advice would be appreciated. Thanks !!
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Author: Gary Van Cott
Date: 1999-12-20 23:15
This should be a good instrument. It is a high intermediate level instrument almost as good as a professional model. It isn't made any more. I would hate to put a value on it, but if it is good condition is should be worth $250-400, possibly more.
Treat it the way you would any wooden clarinet. Keep it in the case when it isn't in use and avoid temperture and humidity extremes as much as possible. Assemble carefully. don't drop. The instruction should provide the basics.
It may benefit from a trip to the repair person if it hasn't been used for a while.
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Author: Tobin Coleman
Date: 1999-12-21 00:31
Ditto Gary's post.
I own a Buffet Evette Master Model. They are identical in dimension and keys to the R-13 Buffet, one of the most pupular professional clarinets. I have read here and elsewhere that the Master Models are, R-13's that were rejected only due to a minor blemish or two, but there is no confirmation of that.
I also own an R-13 and use the Master Model as my backup. I honestly can't tell you which is better, though of course, as all clarinets do, they have some differences. But I had bought the Master Model for $300 in unplayable condition ( it needed about 5 pads) and paid $200 to have a top technician do a complete overhaul, which took a month and included oil soaking, burnishing the bore, intonation work, repadding, etc. Depending on it's age, if yours is in top-notch condition it could be worth $400-$650.
When I was in sixth grade I used to drop my clarinet about once a month. This clarinet won't stand up to too much of that, as Gary said, it's a top level intermediate instrument. You might consider buying one of the sturdier plastic student clarinets (good-enough used ones are available for $100) and if your sixth grader stays with it, move him/her to the Master Model in two or three years. Do have it overhauled.
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Author: Rick2
Date: 1999-12-21 03:51
I also own an Evette, but mine is plastic and clearly a student model. Suki never claimed the clarinet is wood, so I will add that if this clarinet is plastic, it is still a very good choice for a young student if it is in good condition, well regulated (adjusted) and she uses a good mouthpiece. The plastic version is likely worth between $100 and $300.
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Author: sylvan selig
Date: 1999-12-22 07:22
I have nothing to add other than I have owned one since 1969 and everything said so far is true. A great horn. I, too, use mine as a professional backup horn. That's how good it is. Also, I have found that most of these horns are older and need to be oiled. However, do not, and I repeat, DO NOT over oil. If its really dry, oil lightly once a month for 3 months, and play it alot. I was told these horns started life as an R-13 and only because of cosmetic probs, they were not marked as such. I've never been able to find the "blem" on my horn!
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-12-22 23:15
sylvan selig wrote:
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... I was told these horns started life as an R-13 and only because of cosmetic probs, they were not marked as such. I've never been able to find the "blem" on my horn!
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Please provide the proof of this statement. The quantities of "rejects" on the R-13 would have to be several times the number of R-13s marketed as R13s. That is not a reasonable manufacturing approach. This is one of those urban legends we hear and accept to make ourselves feel better just because we wanted but could not buy the other model.
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Author: Tobin Coleman
Date: 1999-12-23 02:30
Dee wrote:
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Please provide the proof of this statement. The quantities of "rejects" on the R-13 would have to be several times the number of R-13s marketed as R13s. That is not a reasonable manufacturing approach. This is one of those urban legends we hear and accept to make ourselves feel better just because we wanted but could not buy the other model.
Dee,
I said the same thing, pretty much, in my post, but again included the caveat that there's no confirmation. It is just one of the things that is said of the Evette Master Models and that one wants to pass along to someone (Suki) asking about them. The Master Model is the only clarinet manufactured by Buffet I've ever heard this said of, not all of the Evettes, and there are nowhere near the quantities of them that there are of R-13s.
Any tech will tell you the keys are interchangeable for like-year models of both and the bore dimensions,tone hole cuts, etc. are the same. I own one of each. They are.
If it's true, it is actually a good manufacturing strategy that has been used by many companies. How can they sell the products that don't quite come up to the top standard? Mark and sell them as another model, or sell them as "seconds" as many of themanufacturer's outlet stores do.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-12-23 02:43
I just popped an email over to Francois Kloc of Buffet to see if he knows the answer. I'll let you know anything I find out.
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-12-23 12:23
Tobin Coleman wrote:
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..It is just one of the things that is said of the Evette Master Models and that one wants to pass along to someone (Suki) asking about them. The Master Model is the only clarinet manufactured by Buffet I've ever heard this said of, not all of the Evettes, and there are nowhere near the quantities of them that there are of R-13s.
Any tech will tell you the keys are interchangeable for like-year models of both and the bore dimensions,tone hole cuts, etc. are the same. I own one of each.
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I hope Mark is able to find out for us. In my opinion though passing on such unconfirmed rumors to people is a disservice. There is the potential that we are leading them astray.
Making the keys interchangeable, etc is simply smart manufacturing to keep the costs down. There could still be other differences (hand finishing for example?) that still makes them different models.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-12-23 14:32
From Francois:
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Dear Mark,
The master model was made by the same persons who made the R13 and yes they are R13 with little cosmetic flaws but nothing is wrong accousticly.
Musically Yours
Merry Christmas
Francois Kloc
Manager of Woodwinds North America
Boosey & Hawkes Musical Instruments Inc.
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-12-23 15:46
This is one of the things that makes the bulletin board great: the resources to find definitive answers rather than relying on hearsay (which may or may not be true).
Since the Master Model is no longer made, which model fulfills that role and serves as the outlet for the "cosmetically flawed" R-13s?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-12-24 20:40
From Francois:
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No we do not use flawed wood today. What we are doing is the wood that is not dense enough to be a R13 become an E13 the semi professional model made at Buffet.
Musically Yours
Francois Kloc
Manager of Woodwind North America
Boosey & Hawkes Musical Instruments Inc.
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Author: beantown_Bb
Date: 2006-07-05 16:32
I am resurrecting an *ancient* post that I came across via Google search.
I have an Evette Master Model circa 1987 or 88. I was intrigued by the idea that they are R-13s with "cosmetic" flaws, so I inspected my own and came up with the following items that may contribute to this being a "Master Model" instead of an R-13:
On the top backside of the upper joint near the register key, there is one particulalry large (long) wood grain "trench." Whereas most of the grain markings all over are merely speckles, this one is about 1/2 inch.
There is also a series of about three grain "trenches" on the barrel of approximately 1/4 inch, very close together, as if the growth rings (or some such) were particularly small in the wood for a couple of years. In fact, I recall these being there ever since I bought the clarinet new way back when. If they didn't have the tapered and rough edging of a grain marking instead of a scratch, one might almost think they were scratches. (In fact, I recall almost having a heart attack the first time I noticed them, thinking I scratched up my brand new clarinet!!)
As far as cosmetic blemishes otherwise, I can't find any. Plays great nearly 20 years later, and has hardly required a lick of work other than the usual minor adjustments.
Interesting, anyway!
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Author: bwilber
Date: 2006-07-06 11:02
Where does the Evette and Schaeffer Master model come in the rank? Is it actually less of an instrument then the Evette Master Model? Thanks.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2006-07-06 17:56
beantown,
Your Evette Master Model would have to be somewhat older than 1987-88 because Buffet stopped using the oval "Evette" logo around 1981. At that time, the Evette Master Model became the E12. If you bought your clarinet new in 1987 or 88 and it is labelled "Evette" or E&S, it must have been on the dealer's shelf for a number of years. If it is truly an Evette Master Model (as opposed to the higher-end Evette & Schaeffer Master Model), it is not an R13 rejected at the end of production for cosmetic flaws. Even if it's an E&S MM, it is very unlikely that it is a rejected finished R13. It may be a good clarinet, nonetheless.
bwilber,
The Evette & Schaeffer is a higher end instrument than both the Evette and the Evette Master Model. It is very likely in this early thread on the topic, that Gary Van Cott, Tobin Coleman and even Francois Kloc were confusing "Evette" for "Evette and Schaeffer" and, FWIW, careful examination of the keywork will show several distinctive differences between that of the Evette Master Model (or K- serial number Evette & Schaeffer Master Models, for that matter) and the R13. There likely are some E&S Master Models that are rejected R13's but they are extremely rare. I have only seen three likely candidates over the years. All had serial numbers < 100000 from the professional Buffet list (and, unlike normal E&S instruments from this period which had a K- prefix to their serial number, these few had no prefix), all had keywork identical to an R13, and all had wood cutouts beneath the right-hand cluster of "pinky" keys.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: beantown_Bb
Date: 2006-07-06 20:25
Thanks for the info. You might be right about the age; it could possibly have been both a combination of buying it earlier than 87-88 AND it having been at the dealer a while. I'm only guessing dates based on the age I *thought* I was when I received it, but who knows!
The seller [RIP!] was a retired professional clarinetist and his style was to hand-pick a few that he enjoyed, bring them back to his shop, and then work to match them to the student/player who came in to purchase based on their budget, musical goals, and playing styles. Perhaps the magical match took longer for some clarinets than others! : )
Always interesting to know the history, especially since they really messed around with the Evette brand. (Seems like they slapped it on just about anything for a while, there! Wood...plastic...regular...master model...made in France...Made in Germany... Quite the free for all!)
Mine's a Made in France and the serial starts with a D prefix. Any story behind the prefix, or did they all have the same prefix? (I have tried to look this up online to no avail; given the Evette free-for-all that happened toward the end of the model, all I seem to find is confusion!)
I remember way back then that it cost about $750, which was quite a chunk of change 20 some-odd years ago (and still is, I must admit)!
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2006-07-07 03:33
Well, it's not quite the free-for-all you make it out to be. The Evette model (at least the wooden one) and the higher-end E&S both date back at least to the 1930's. The Evette name signified student model and, when Buffet eventually introduced a plastic student model, Buffet chose to call it an Evette. Over the years, the instruments have had very similar designs, differing primarily in the material used -- plastic vs. wood. Even today, the B12 is, for all intents and purposes a plastic E11. I don't remember seeing anything specific on the Evette Master Model but I suspect the process was similar to the E&S Master Model. In that case, according to Buffet, the designation occurred during the final testing process. That is, the E&S Master Model started life as a standard E&S but, when completed, tested out particularly well. The fact that the Master Models occur rather randomly throughout the Evette (D-series) serial numbers would certainly be consistent with this explanation.
The France vs. Germany designation simply results because, around 1978, Buffet moved the manufacture of their student instruments from a factory in Paris to the Schreiber und Sohn factory in Germany.
I think your seller was charging on the high side. I remember pricing new Eb clarinets at Weiner Music in 1985. A new R13 or RC, take your pick, was $950. I think that was around $100 more than Bb's at the time. According to WWBW, a new E12 lists for $2,233 and sells for no more than $1,149.
If my memory serves, the D-series started around 1960 and the prefix was used on Evettes and Evette Master Models until the change in designation to E12. (And, I think, actually was also used for E12's. In fact, for all I know, it may still be used for this model. I really haven't followed it since it became the E12. Perhaps someone else will chime in with information on the more recent instruments.) A D-series, made in France should date between 1960 and 1978. I have a French Evette MM that I bought on eBay a few years ago - D36xxx. The seller said her parents had purchased it for her around 1976 and, at a time when the Buffet serial number lookup was working, I think I dated its manufacture to that year or maybe the one before. Assuming "D1" was 1960 and D36xxx was 1976, you can perhaps estimate the date yours was made. Production was probably higher in later years though.
Best regards,
jnk
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