 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-06-07 21:39
Hi guys!
What do you guys think are the 5 or 10 most challenging solo pieces/concertos written for clarinet? I´m just curious, because I think Violin players have Paganini´s 24 caprices and if you want to play those you have to be very virtuosic , but I haven´t heard many clarinet works called virtuosic. If I have to name a few I would say Rossini: Intro,theme and variations, some of Weber works and concertos (especially the 2 concerto). Of course there is Corigliano´s concerto but I don´t think it´s really a virtuosic piece, because it is so modern. How about your thoughts?
Thanks for any input!
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-06-07 22:17
I think there's a difference between virtuosic and hard.
Virtuosic...pieces that are made to sound easy, however hard they are.
Hard...things like the Nielsen concerto...it's unlikely that anyone comes off stage after that, and the audience says, that piece sounded really easy.
If you make Mozart sound hard though, you have almost failed.
Virtuosic pieces then....
I would suggest, those by Cahuzac, Giampieri, Baermann (variations to Weber works for example) and various other great virtuosi player/composers. Perhaps these sound so virtuosic, because they are written by masters of the instrument.
Some would say things like Messager Solo de concours, but it's not exactly brilliant clarinet writing, in terms of technique.
What I'm trying to say is hard to put into words, I hope I'm making some kind of sense!!
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-06-07 23:43
Frankly - who cares how difficult or challenging a piece of music is ... don't you people just play simple pieces for the joy of music making??
But ... since you asked:Castelnuovo-Tedesco's Sonata is very challenging and sadly neglected, also Desportes, Y. La naissance du papillon - is very beautiful and will wrinkle your fingers.
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2004-06-08 03:11
Bucolique, Bozza
Concerto, Francaix
Concerto, Corigliano
Grand Duo Concertante, Weber (if played fast enough!)
Quintet, Weber
Sonatine, Milhaud
A Set for Clarinet, Martino
The Spohr Concertos
Dancing Solo, Larsen
Concert Pieces Op. 113/114, Mendelssohn
There are many pieces that are virtuosic for the clarinet, including but not limited to those listed above. I think many make the mistake of comparing the difficulty of clarinet music to that of the violin or piano. They are different instruments with different capablities, and thus, different definitions of what is "hard". For example, some of the most difficult pieces I've heard for french horn could be easily tackled by the clarinet, but that doesn't make them any less virtuosic for the french horn.
DH = )
theclarinetist@yahoo.com
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-06-08 09:44
theclarinetist wrote:
>For example, some of the most difficult pieces I've heard for french horn could be easily tackled by the clarinet, but that doesn't make them any less virtuosic for the french horn.<
Yeas, that´s right. Sometime ago I heard a pretty young (and good)trumpet player playing some modern piece which was really entertaining ( I don´t remember the composer) in a European solist competition (btw. it was the final phase). It propably wouldn´t be so difficult to play with the clarinet, but really hard to play on trumpet, because you have to think before what note you will play and then do something with your mouth to play it out (The same thing as when playing french horn). And it is so hard to play those fast notes so that the intonation doesn´t suffer. After the performance the audience gave him a big hand (for a reason).
diz wrote:
Frankly - who cares how difficult or challenging a piece of music is ...
I don´t care really, but if some really hard piece can be made to look easy, that is something! If you listen Paganini´s caprices played lightly and someone could make them sound almost easy, then it´s so fun to listen!
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-06-08 12:24
Yeah, that´s right. Sometime ago I heard a pretty young (and
good)trumpet player playing some modern piece which was really
entertaining ( I don´t remember the composer) in a European
solist competition (btw. it was the final phase).
I think you mean Daniel de Gruchy Lambert (15)...I went to school with him.
Not sure which bit you saw, but it was either the BBC Young Musician of the year, which is run biannually in the UK, or the Eurovision Young Musician of the Year, which the BBC send its 5 finalists to.
As for the piece....
Alexander Arutiunian, Trumpet concerto in A major....
I don't suggest you try it on the clarinet mind...unless you're an expert double and triple tonguer!!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-06-08 12:38
RAMman wrote:
> As for the piece....
> Alexander Arutiunian, Trumpet concerto in A major....
The Artunian Trumpet Concerto also contains some beautiful orchestral clarinet writing in the principal clarinet part ...GBK
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-06-08 13:57
RaMman wrote:
>I think you mean Daniel de Gruchy Lambert (15)...I went to school with him.
Yeah, might be that guy. He is Swiss, if I remember correctly. The competition was Eurovision Young Musician of the Year. That piece was really entertaining. The assembly was unusual. It didn´t contain any strings and had about 3 saxophone players and some extraordinary drums when compared to pieces that are composed earlier.
I have never heard anyone playing trumpet so quickly as this guy. I think the tone he made was also great.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-06-08 14:01
A pretty tough piece is the Martinu Sonatina...here the virtuosity if how well the clarinetist can control articulation and how well he can control the flow of this tricky music...
The Francaix concerto is pretty tought...but not as memorable as some.
The Carter Concerto is tougher in many ways than the corigliano...
David Dow
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2004-06-08 14:27
I dislike when people make comments like "who cares how hard a piece of music is?". While technically demanding music isn't the height of expression, it is certainly something to admire and be entertained by. I get more musical satisfaction from the Brahms Sonata 2, but the Francaix Concerto gets my heart pumping faster. Take a different piece, like the Rach 3 for piano. While the piece is musically well-crafted and highly expressive, there is also a great deal of pleasure that is derived (at least for me) just from the sheer spectacle of watching a person physically tackle the piece.
I think it is unnecessary to just say that virtuosity doesn't matter. Ideally, virtuosity and musical expression work together to make a piece as effective as possible. Purely technical passages with no musical interest get boring really fast, but when used properly, virtuosic writing can be some of the most satisfying and exciting stuff to listen to (in my opinion).
DH
theclarinetist@yahoo.com
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Author: Joel Clifton
Date: 2004-06-08 14:44
Right now for next semester I'm working on Variations sur un Air du Pays d'Oc by Louis Cahuzac for next semester. It is very beautiful music, and very difficult. You need very fast fingers and very good embouchure.
Last year I played Fantasie Variee Sur Un Viel Air Champêtre by the same, but I wouldn't consider that piece especially hard, or even very fun.
Last year Robert Spring did a masterclass at Miami University, and I got to watch him play, among other things, Flight of the Bumblebee at full speed, all staccato. That was pretty amazing.
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"You have to play just right to make dissonant music sound wrong in the right way"
Post Edited (2004-06-08 14:59)
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-06-08 14:58
Clarinetist...
If he's Swiss, it's a different guy, and the Arutiunian has a fairly standard orchestration as far as I remember.
GBK, I'd forgotten those solos, they are somethjing special.
Oh well, never mind!
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-06-08 16:27
RaMman,
He was the only guy playing trumpet in the final phase. He was something like 15 or 16, I`m not entirely sure.
theclarinetist wrote:
>I dislike when people make comments like "who cares how hard a piece of music is?"
Yeah me too. Just listened sabine meyer´s version of Rossini´s intro, theme and variation. I just love the final variation. Like the theclarinest said, a good technical knowledge together with good expression can make those "Bravo, bravo" shouts true among the audience.
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Author: Tom Piercy
Date: 2004-06-08 18:36
Question for DIZ:
This "Y. La - naissance du papillon"
What is this piece?
More info please?
Thanks.
Tom Piercy
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Author: Tom Piercy
Date: 2004-06-08 19:27
Never mind....
got it.. you were refereing to Desportes' "La naissance du papillon"
not a new piece by Y. LA.
Thanks,
Tom Piercy
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-06-08 22:00
composer: Desportes, Y. (Yves): french impressionist (from memory - GBK?). Just order it and be delighted - and challenged.
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Author: Rick Williams
Date: 2004-06-09 03:23
A couple of pieces that come to mind are Finzi's Clarinet Concerto which is giving me fits as we speak and on a totally different side, Artie Shaw's Clarinet Concerto. Finzi if I recall has something like 52 key changes and 23 tempo changes in it and is written in very difficult keys. The challenge with Shaws piece is that in addition to the swing styling, it has some very nasty gliss's which make the opening of Rhapsody look like childs play and runs of extremely quick passages in the altissimo. I've played it a dozen times and when I listen to Shaw play it, it makes we want to just go home!
Best
RW
Best
Rick
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-06-09 08:50
Rick Williams wrote:
>Finzi if I recall has something like 52 key changes
Hope you have practised your scales well... Another very challenging piece technically and musically is Debussy´s Premiere Rhapsody. It also has some key changes and there is something like four flat´s, (which is not so bad yet) but then there comes like five sharps and that is quite bad.
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Author: bkmorton
Date: 2004-06-09 14:01
Neilson Concerto
Copland Concerto
You have to be really good just to get to the end:)
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