 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2004-06-04 13:51
Hey guys. In a few weeks when I return from Paris with new clarinets, plus my old pair, I may have problems carrying to many things on board the plane. If I have no other choice I may possibly have to put my old pair underneath the plane (theres no way you'd ever get me putting the new pair underneath). I was curious as to if this is a safe option. Is the pressure likely to cause any problem to the older instruments?
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-06-04 14:07
Rather than the pressure, I'd watch out for temperature. I'm not sure if the cargo areas of the plane are shielded against the cold.....
Is there anyone else accompanying you that might be convinced to claim the old clarinets as part of THEIR carry-on baggage?
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-06-04 14:29
Do the airlines not put pets (dogs, etc.) in the cargo hold? That would tip me off that the climate down there is the same as in the passenger compartment (which I'm fairly sure it is).
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-06-04 14:31
You could ask if there is a baggage/freight compartment that is used to transport live animals, then ask that your instruments be placed there.
Hans
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-06-04 14:31
David Spiegelthal wrote:
> Do the airlines not put pets (dogs, etc.) in the cargo hold?
> That would tip me off that the climate down there is the same
> as in the passenger compartment (which I'm fairly sure it is).
They do? I didn't know that. I thought they had separate compartments for different types. One for livestock (that needed a certain temperature and secure fastening so they don't slide around) and a separate compartment for luggage that just gets tossed in there.
I didn't know how it works.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: William
Date: 2004-06-04 14:36
Arn't you allowed two carry ons? Simply put one set in the overhead and store the other set uder the seat in front of you. I definately would not put them in the cargo hole. And asking someone else to carry them for you could be tricky. I once read--on this BB--of a bassoonist who was actually asked, by an airport security official, to assemble his instrument and play a few notes. I can just imagine the "designated clarinetist" standing there and saying to him/herself.........."now which hand goes on top???"
But then, again, I wonder how clarinets are commercially transported from France (or "where ever") for eventual sale in the USA. Perhaps we clarinetists baby our instruments to excess. I remember (way back) when I was in college, I used to carry my clarinet--in only its case and warm after a two hour practice session at Music Hall--and "trudge" UWs Bascom Hill on my fifteen minute walk to the dorms in below zero degree temps. And to this day, 45 yrs later, that clarinet (Buffet R13) has never cracked. The baggage compartment of a plane--maybe, no big deal. But then again, those baggage handlers...............
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-06-04 14:41
Remember that a commercial aircraft is a long, pressurized tube with a circular cross-section (because such a cross-section is the strongest for holding pressure for minimum weight); therefore the cargo hold is part of the pressurized volume, it's simply the half of the tube below the "people" deck. The entire pressurized volume, to the best of my knowledge, is pressurized with dried and conditioned bleed air from the engines, and it would be foolish for the cargo hold to be allowed to get any colder than the rest of the cabin, if for no other reason than the resulting condensation would corrode/rust all the metal parts down there.
Dr. Hank, what's the real story here?
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-06-04 14:43
Have you ever got frost-bitten fingers when collecting your luggage from a carousel?
Do the airlines warn you not to pack bottles of water, which would crack if stored below freezing point?
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-06-04 15:01
Why would you check something that valuable? First, the airlines are quite explicit in their limitations of liability for damage or loss of valuable items. They state in all their materials that such items should be carried onboard if at all possible. Second, with security what it is now and all baggage subject to opening and search globally, do you want De Gaulle airport's airline gendarmes pawing your horns unsupervised?
If you can't carry them with you, have the dealer in Paris ship your old set home air express insured. It is worth the money to save the aggravation.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-06-04 15:53
You may not be allowed to take it inside the cabin now, because you could take off an F/C lever and use it to stab somebody, or .........
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-06-04 16:21
Hi DS,
Glad to provide some info on air carrier's cargo holds. It is not often that one gets to offer aeronautical advice on a clarinet BB.
You are correct about the pressure vessel extending to the cargo hold. However, one thing that people may not know is that the cabin (and the hold) climb to about 6,000 to 7,000 feet when the airplane is at cruise altitude. Manintaing the vessel at what is called maximum differential is about all that can be expected of the pressurization system while at FL 360 and above. Animals seem OK on this as well as all of us in the cabin.
A small experiment is to have one of those blowup neck pillows and inflate in almost full; at cruise, your pillow will be very firm since the air pressure in the pillow is greater than the cabin. For landing, the pilot will usually set the pressurization to 50 feet less than field elevation on the descent and the cabin will slowly descend. This operation prevents a big pop on landing since there is often what is called a squat switch on one of the landing gears that "dumps" the cabin pressurization on landing.
For the temperature issue, the flight deck crew has active temperature indications for the hold to prevent too cold or too hot (perhaps a fire). Remember the outside air tempurature goes very quickly to -30 degree Celsius at altitude and becomes what is called cold-soaked after a period of time. If a bag is against the skin or a rib while in the hold, conduction will cool the bag.
The only real restriction that I know of that one needs to be concerned about that is not very common is the use of dry ice. If a pet is close to that container, oxygen will be depleted. The loading crew are usually aware of those packages since they are consider hazardous material and are required to be well marked.
I think that's about enough of this stuff.
Hank Lehrer, ATP, CFII, CE500
PS I would not put anything of value in the hold or let it out of my sight at any time. I'd go so far as to check and see what an extra piece of carry-on will cost you. Explain to the airlines what you require.
Post Edited (2004-06-07 00:23)
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Author: ChrisC
Date: 2004-06-04 17:16
Regarding what William said about being made to play an instrument before carrying it onto the plane...I have, in fact, been made to do this. If you're carrying on two pairs, be prepared for a lot of assembly and dis-assembly...and make sure you have your reeds with you!
Post Edited (2004-06-04 17:17)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-06-04 18:43
Keep the case open in case someone decides to throw in some change . . . . then say, "Thank you, Gov'ner"
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Clare
Date: 2004-06-04 19:32
If I were you, I'd either do what msloss suggests and have the dealer ship it to you insured or take a holdall that will fit both cases in and take that as hand-luggage, provided the dimensions are OK. You'd obviously need to check the airline's policy on cabin baggage. Some insist on just one item; others allow you two so long as the overall weight is below a certain level.
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-06-04 21:22
I would do also consider very carefully whether to take the pair with you on the flight. I´m not sure, if you want to take the risk that the pair would be lost or stolen.
I don´t want to scare you, but some of my luggage were stolen couple of years ago and I don´t want the same thing to happen to you. Fortunately, there were just some clothes and not really expensive things so it wasn´t so bad thing.
But in the end, the decision is yours.
Good luck for whatever you do!
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Author: Brad
Date: 2004-06-04 21:50
I have carried on my Bass and my Bb and A several times with only one minor incident. Once they said I need to check the Bass but they backed off once I told them it was a musical instrument like the Guitar someone else was carrying on, and they let me board.
I think I would just ship the old pair back, if I couldn't carry them on.
Brad Cohen
Clarinetist
la_brad@yahoo.com
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Author: Tom A
Date: 2004-06-05 00:51
I've tried putting my old clarinet underneath planes, but they keep taking off before they run over it.
It's my birthday, so you have to laugh at that.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-06-05 02:14
How many Clarinet cases will fit in a bag of the largest dimensions acceptable as carry-on by the airline you're flying? Maybe all four? Perhaps there is no problem at all, just a need to buy a cheap carry bag to transform four items into one.
Bon voyage,
John
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2004-06-05 06:40
To take on board I am going to have my backpack (with my Eb clarinet, a book, toiletries etc) in it, my double BAM case with my old pair (which the airline knows about because its an orchestra tour) and a double Buffet case with the new clarinets. Maybe i'll just have to pay a fee for the extra carry on item?
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-06-05 09:11
Just a suggestion Nick - choose which pair you won't need for a week or so, and send them 'priority' of as 'fragile' cargo or something from France?
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2004-06-06 17:30
Once in The Clarinet magazine a multi-instrumentalist told how he traveled. He wrapped the dis-assembled clarinets in bubble wrap and put them inside sturdy cardboard mailing tubes, then carried the tubes in his carry-on luggage.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-06-06 18:44
Yes I have had my reed knives conviscated at the US border...luckily they were my junky ones...I left the Herder and Opperman knives at home.
David Dow
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-06-06 23:15
I heard a story once, David, about a guy who was looked at very suspisciously crossing either to Canada from US or vice versa. Not only did the guards think his knives were trouble, they thought he might be smuggling something inside the case. When he opened the case and showed the clarinets, they told him to take the lining out so they could search underneath it. He told them it doesn't come out...they let it go eventually...but if I remember correctly, he was also required to play...
Katrina
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2004-06-07 00:43
Wouldn't it make more sense to put the knives and sharp object in your checked in baggage. That way surely clarinets wouldn't cause suspician
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Author: ned
Date: 2004-06-07 01:50
I travel to NZ and the USA quite frequently and always carry my instrument on board in a padded computer bag and it is also wrapped in a cloth for extra protection.
I have never been asked to put it together or even have it queried as to what the object is (during x-ray) except once, when the person asked if it was a clarinet - I said ''yes'' - and was immediately waved through. There should not really be a problem I would have thought.
As for pulling off a key and attacking someone!!?? - when Qantas serves up a meal, you are given a flimsy plastic knife and a rather sturdy metal fork - I notice!! Can't figure this logic out I'm afraid - it's difficult to see how one could render damage with a reed cutter or nail clippers and yet be given a ''dangerous'' weapon served up with the in-flight tucker.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-06-07 05:14
Nick-
The guy to whom I refer was in a vehicle, _driving_ to (or from) Canada...
Go figure...
Katrina
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Author: ned
Date: 2004-06-07 06:39
''Go figure...''
Go [and] figure what exactly?
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-06-07 12:25
Hank,
Since no one else said it, I will -- thanks for the info. Always a good thing when someone injects actual facts into a discussion.
Mark.
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Author: lycfmtkl
Date: 2004-06-07 15:14
I took my clarinet and my flute in a large hand carried bag to check in at the local airport last easter holiday. They let me go through with the instruments but they ask me to drink the bottle of distilled water that I was carrying in my oter hand. They suspected it was gasoline instead of distilled water.
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Author: Bob Schwab
Date: 2004-06-07 19:19
I'll add my two cents into the Canada/US border discussion.
Since I was laid off (again) 6 months ago, I've taken up a temporary job delivering delayed/lost luggage for the airlines that operate out of the Buffalo, NY airport. This requires that I make frequent trips into Canada. I've had very little problem crossing either border, but truth be told, the Canadian customs officers seem to be more reasonable (and friendly) than the US customs officers. Sometimes the Canadians will inspect a piece of luggage, but other than that it's simply a matter of explaining why I wish to come into their country. Getting back into the US is sometimes more of a hassle. They'll frequently grill me a little by asking me stuff like what hospital I was born in before allowing me to return to my home. They've also tried to charge me at times to get back in to the US because I used my vehicle "commercially." As someone who spent 20 years in the US Air Force I find it a bit off putting to have to go through the third degree to re-enter my own country. C'est la vie.
Bob Schwab
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-06-07 19:28
Hi Mark,
Thanks. It is always nice that I can still flex my flight instructor wings once in a while!.
HRL
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-06-07 20:45
And, Aussie Nick, if you want to try transporting a clarinet really UNDER the plane, I suggest that you first fully assemble it (without the case), with the mouthpiece pointing forward for aerodynamic stability. I think that Hank Lehrer would agree with this principle. Also, I'm sure that Gordon(NZ) would look forward with intense interest to the result of such a test. After all, cryogenic treatment is "often" recommended for saxes (well, let's say by at least ONE expert).
Henry
Post Edited (2004-06-07 20:46)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-06-07 22:18
Hi Henry,
Yes, the MP would probably add a very steamlined "leading edge" to the clarinet. Also, the trailing shape of the bell might actually improve the airplane's fuel econony. I do not say this in jest.
This story is according to a friend at Boeing. It was discovered on the MD 80 series of airplanes that the identation in the side of the empannage to accomadate the possible addition of the unducted fan engines (those that were going to be jets but have propellors attached - aka Cuisinart engines) actually increased the fuel efficiency of the turbo engines without blades. That's why the indentations became a part of the empannage on all production MD 80s; I have not looked at the MD 90s closely enough to see if the same holds true but I suspect so.
HRL
Post Edited (2004-06-08 15:45)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-06-08 13:14
Quote:
Henry wrote
And, Aussie Nick, if you want to try transporting a clarinet really UNDER the plane, I suggest that you first fully assemble it (without the case), with the mouthpiece pointing forward for aerodynamic stability. I think that Hank Lehrer would agree with this principle. Also, I'm sure that Gordon(NZ) would look forward with intense interest to the result of such a test. With a legere reed and suitable ligature, it'd be interesting to see whether the velocity of air causes it to blow an open G, or maybe overblow to a higher harmonic.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Rick Williams
Date: 2004-06-09 03:38
Last year I was asked to play my clarinet by the security folks at my local airport who have seen me on several ocassions. So I played the theme from Looney Tunes. Seemed appropriate at the time...g
RW
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Author: ned
Date: 2004-06-09 05:56
'' So I played the theme from Looney Tunes. Seemed appropriate at the time...g ''
Quite!
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