 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Clay
Date: 2004-05-31 21:18
HI
I am the clarinet section leader in my high school marching band, and am wondering why clarinets are used in marching band. Since the clarinet's unique sound is easily lost under brass and percussion are we simply spot fillers? Or do we serve another purpose? I don't wish in any way to anger or upset anyone who happens to read this, as that is not my intention. Thank you very much for your thoughts on this matter.
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Author: Joel Clifton
Date: 2004-05-31 22:04
You may not hear the specific notes of the clarinets, but the clarinets add a fullness to the band's tone.
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"You have to play just right to make dissonant music sound wrong in the right way"
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2004-05-31 22:42
Yeh, Clay -- I often wondered the same thing. Especially after working all summer on my clarinet embouchure, and then having to go into marching band and ruin it. Not to mention all my good reeds. ![[frown]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie2.gif)
From a more mature perspective, I suppose it is a matter of adding another texture to the mix. But there are bands which do very well without woodwinds at all -- like the one that calls itself "The Best Damn Band in the Land" -- THE Ohio State University Marching Band (they do use saxophones, however).
Susan
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-05-31 22:45
Thoughts on the matter...
First and foremost, Clay -- Don't even think about apologizing. Yours is a good and valid question. It's been asked over and over and over since as long as I can remember. I feel it should be answered over and over and over as many times as there are band members who ask about it. I'm pretty sure those who've gone before us heard it often too simply because I'm quite sure they noticed the same thing. However, I do not agree with anyone that clarinets serve no purpose in a marching environment other than as spot fillers. "Spot fillers"? wellll, yeah. But, wait... there's a whole lot more to it than that:
A marching band's function outdoors, off the concert stage, is somewhat different and somewhat the same as it is in a concert setting. Referring to my imaginary manual, **Introduction to Band, 101**, "a band's outdoor function is to impress both aurally and visually, your onlookers". You are then a musical Precision Drill Team. You've probably heard the expression, "wearing different hats." Indoor concerts, comb your hair --Outdoors, you put on your [outdoor] hats (caps)  Your job is to impress those along the parade route, onlookers, friends, family, townspeople, jerks in the judges stand. Everyone.
Don't kid yourself though, the clarinet's sound is not lost. Depending where the listener is located, the closer you are the more the different instruments' sounds come and go - even the flutes, believe it or not, can be heard at times. At a greater distance you'll sound like a full band. For the audience: crowd, gawkers, bystanders, grandstand sitters, etc., visual impressions are very much a necessity to the overall effectiveness of any marching band's performances. Marching band performers are quite animated - if, in fact, you're any good at it and are really doing your job. If you're doing your job you know that it's hard, physically demanding work. In many schools it qualifies as P.E. credit. Each member is every bit as important as every other member, no more, no less, working together as a unit. If you don't fullly understand that going in you might be happier taking a different elective during marching season.
I'm serious. During my early high school days, the first chair clarinetist, section leader, was on the football team (2nd string) during football/marching-band season. During concert season and springtime parades he played (and marched) as well as any good players I've heard before or since.
No thoughtful person is angered by a legitimate question. Reading over my comments though, I realize it may seem I have my back up a little. I don't intend that, my answer, from my point of view of course, to be testy. I intend to state the facts and realities as I know them from several years experience, both as a 'professional'(earned a living at it) and non-professional(for the fun of it) concert/marching clarinet tooter. Uh, (oops) I mean BANDSMAN.... [ yeah, that's it. ...clarinet player ]
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
Post Edited (2004-05-31 22:55)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-31 22:46
Woodwinds in general are not that useful in marching bands. Hence all the "drum and bugle corps" out there. Never heard of a "drum and woodwind corps".
My guess would be that they have to accomodate everyone that's in the band during the football season so they include all your "primary" instruments. I've (yes) even seen marching bass clarinets, marching bassoons (yes I AM serious), marching oboes, etc.
Then again, now that I think about it, I went to one football game where the other school didn't have a music program. So I got to see a marching electric guitar, with a stationary drum set and marching electric bass guitar. Very simple formations, and very careful not to trip over the cords.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-05-31 23:22
Susan,
I don't recall the BDBITL ever using saxophones. In fact, it was not until recent years that trombones were allowed on the field (OSU directors worked with King Instrument Company to develop a trombonium in the 1960s). Also, only silver-plated instruments plus a whole lot of other "traditions."
The 192-piece block band consists of the following instrumentation: 10 E-flat Cornets, 44 B-flat Cornets, 18 Flugelhorns, 24 F Horns, 24 Slide Trombones, 24 Baritone Horns, 24 Sousaphones, 12 Snare Drums, 4 Bass Drums, 4 Pair of Cymbals, 4 Quadra-Toms.
Go Bucks! http://www.acs.ohio-state.edu/org/osuband/sounds/fighttheteam.wav
HRL
Post Edited (2004-05-31 23:38)
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2004-06-01 02:45
Hi Hank --
You may well be right about the OSU band not using saxes. I'll have to check with my cousin. He was a member of the band for two years in 1980s, and I'm not aware that he ever played anything except sax. But then, there are probably a lot of things that I don't know about him . . .
Susan
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Author: ginny
Date: 2004-06-01 14:52
The arrangements that the bands local to me do don't have the brass or percussion going full tilt all the time. They do complicated symphonic like arrangements that use all of the available colors. Of the last three shows two at my son's high school have featured SOLO clarinet, Fiddler on the Roof and Rhapsody in Blue. My son had the first solo on RiB, and could be heard in the stadiums he played in without a microphone, as could his predessor on FotR. Leather Lungs and a light reed. Of course we have around 20 or so marching on clarinet, so they are heard.
It might be the arrangements your are using don't feature clarinet or woodwinds, they would seem to lack dynamics in that case, with everyone blatting full tilt all the time.
Drum and bugle corps have a fine tradition as well.
Post Edited (2004-06-01 14:56)
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2004-06-01 15:11
And what would the clarinetists do during marching season if they weren't included in marching band? You can't have them all playing bells or cymbals.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-06-01 15:13
Don Poulsen wrote:
> And what would the clarinetists do during marching season if
> they weren't included in marching band? You can't have them all
> playing bells or cymbals.
There's always the 'color guard' . . .
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2004-06-01 15:24
As a guy, let me say that I'm glad I was never in a color guard back when. Can you imagine being grouped with a bunch of girls in short, tight outfits? On second thought, that might not be such a bad idea.
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Author: William
Date: 2004-06-01 15:27
The clarinets are usually wasted in the typical high school or college marching band whose only way to impress thier audience--who probably is really not listening during the half-time anyway--is to play louder than they are yelling. However, in the truely artistically designed shows presented by good summer competative marching bands, the woodwinds are often featured and are not always covered by the usual "out of control" brass and percussion so typical of the college marching bands. (And I include every "Big Ten" marching band in my characterization). In our Madison, WI area, we have two excellant summer competative marching bands that feature a well balanced marching ensemble of percussion, brass and woodwinds--and their arrangers (sound designers) and instructors make certain that all aspects of their musical and marching compliment and balance each other, rather than compete by simply overplaying.
As for the comment above regarding, "Never heard of a "drum and woodwind corps"--which implies that all they do is overblow--I would like to assure all of you that most good, competative drum and bugle corps play with the utmost of taste and control. Our own Madison Explorer Drum and Bugle Corps budget several thousands of dollars every summer season for musical equipement, specially arranged music, nationally recognized musical instructors and a drill design that presents the music as a intergal part of their total show. As with most good drum and bugle corps, they so not just run onto the field and blow their brains out--like most college bands--but spend countless hours in musical rehearsals developing the skills necessary to play with control and execute their parts flawlessly and with remarkable musical effect. But their shows are limited to specific instruments in specific keys. Trumpets, trombones, baritones and tubas--as well as all woodwinds--are not allowed. That is why you do not see "drum, bugle and woodwind" corps. Most modern corps sound designers would glady utilize the woodwind family--as well as many other special effect instruments--if the rules would allow. And they could do so with very musical results--a least, with the better D&B corps such as our own Scouts or the Chicago Cavaliers. But so far, the rules only allow percussion and bugle-like instruments.
For the record, as a former college marching band member and (later, after graduation) a judge of regional and national band and drum corps competions, I appreciate the function of the "football" marching band in adding half-time entertainment which fills what would certainly be an otherwise boring 15 min. time period--but I do not enjoy the manner in which their music is executed. Most high school and college bands employ "hip" marching styles which do not allow careful articulation or tone control and their productions are not designed with the balanced ensemble in mind. It's usually, get from one design to the next as quickly and efficiently as possible and keep blowing as loud as possible so as to be heard over the crowd noise. As a result, the woodwinds--and woe to us, the clarinet in particular--are usually not even heard beyond the sidelines (if that). It is a very rare high school marching band that features the woodwind sound with musical success. So, Clay, if your frustration continues, you might consider the saxophone--or Drum Major!! Good luck.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-06-01 15:45
Because some clarinet players don't want to switch to sax or trumpet (on which instruments they might actually be heard).
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-06-01 16:04
I'm sure, if given the choice, most marching band directors would dump all their clarinetists in a minute if they could acquire 1 or 2 additional brass players...GBK
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-06-01 20:33
Best marching band I ever heard was mostly composed of Euphonia...
Some of the experience players could reach quite high on the charts.
Worst marching band I ever heard was a touring company of 'Blast'.
Oy - such dreck.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-06-01 21:37
And what about that poor guy that's been studying the triangle all his life?! Man. When I was a freshman we had a triangle player. He was 14 years old and already a semi-pro. Ever since he was young and saw "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers" and saw the triangle bringing everyone to the dinner table, he wanted nothing more than to master that instrument.
Local community orchestras would go OUT OF THEIR WAY to hire him for a triangle concerto. However freshman year, our band director told him that he may have to switch to symbols as he simply didn't have triangle music for the shows. The poor guy just ran out of the room crying. Their family moved next week with cries of injustice and discrimination against percussion specialists. I wonder what happened to him . . . name was John something . . .
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-06-02 00:59
Marching bands, you gotta love 'em.
I (mis) spent my youth marching around in the school's band (mainly for such things as ANZAC day march, which was good).
the only thing that made me laugh (still does) is seeing a Salvation Army band complete with tambourine playing girls (why don't men play tambourines????).
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2004-06-02 01:25
My high school had 300 students (actually grades 7-12). Of these, 80 were in the concert band. About 25 or 30 were clarinets. During football season, the band lost about 15 players to the football team. Thus the marching band was about 65 people. If clarinets had been ineligible, the marching band would have had about 40 people with a heavy weighting of 7th and 8th graders.
Clarinets were there for bulk in formations.
Of course that was half a century ago, when people remembered Sousa, and other military marches that had clarinet parts that could be heard.
( Not quite as much "Louie, Louie" or "Axel F")
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Author: Lisa
Date: 2004-06-02 02:27
I'm sure, if given the choice, most marching band directors would dump all their clarinetists in a minute if they could acquire 1 or 2 additional brass players...GBK
Here's my old (old) high school marching band director's solution. He converted several of the freshmen clarinet and flute players to alto sax. Then he transposed the trombone parts to be doubled on alto sax, which made the band sound much fuller, even though most of these players never really became good sax players.
Sometimes (not often) our director had the brass lay out for maybe 16 measures so the woodwinds could be heard in competitions to get "woodwind credit" or something like that.
Post Edited (2004-06-02 21:38)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-06-02 12:29
Another option is for the clarinets to double on bagpipes
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-06-02 12:45
Hi,
This goes back about 30 years but when I was the band director at a mid-sized HS in OH in the late 1960s and early 70s, I converted all the woodwinds to brass for marching band. The Big Brass Band From Tigerland was about 130 strong and really blew! How can you miss with 60+ trumpets, over 20+ trombones, 10 baritones, 10 altos, 8 tubas, plus percussion.
The band boosters were very kind and we picked up a whole lot of used trumpets, cornets, and trumpets at very cheap prices; there were donations as well. Many students were able to find brass instruments on their own.
I would begin woodwind to brass classes in May and have some additional ones over the summer and by the time band camp rolled around, these "converts" could handle a 2nd or 3rd brass part fairly easily. Once someone reads music, the rest is much easier.
As has been discussed before on this BB, there are few if any negative impacts on woodwind players that double on brass (everyone managed to get their superior ratings by the time that Solo & Ensemble Contest rolled around). Actully, several players opted to stay on brass after marching band.
Those were some pretty indredible days! I wish I had some recording of that band.
HRL
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2004-06-02 13:52
This is all very strange to a non American. Elsewhere we have bands that march, both brass and concert/ military, but it is a rare occurence to find a 'marching band'. From what I have heard of these marching bands I find it interesting that the word 'band' is used, in connection, at all. I am using the assumption that the word 'band' is meant to mean a 'band of music' in the archaic sense. There does not appear to be any 'music', as such, performed by American 'marching bands' at all. Organised noise, would be about as close as you could go to defining any 'marching band' efforts as music. The use of backing tapes further add to the fraud. I suppose the influx of funds from the sports budget into the music department may seem at first glance attractive. The 'quantity over quality' or 'form over function' arguments may be used to arue against the value of these funds. A few of us listen to the 'sublime' efforts of the Sanford University marching band for comedy relief on occasion. Boycott the whole 'marching band' concept and it might just die. It, the 'marching band' concept, is a testament to the stupidity of the average audience!
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-06-02 14:00
Hi Mark,
I read your comment with great interest.
I was struck by two comments you made. The first was "This is all very strange to a non American." The second was "It, the 'marching band' concept, is a testament to the stupidity of the average audience!"
It would seem that for something that is "strange" to you, you have made a very strong comment "testament to the stupidity..." What is your basis for making the last statement?
I think many things that some of my mates from AU do and say are interesting and even quaint but IMHO, never stupid.
HRL
PS A sound file from the Florida State University Marching Chiefs touted as the world's largest college marching band. A bit politically incorrct but this will give you an idea about the phenomena.
http://www.marchingchiefs.fsu.edu/2000music/Warchant2000.mp3
or http://www.marchingchiefs.fsu.edu/1999music/Make%20Me%20Smile.mp3
Here are some pictures for your review
http://www.marchingchiefs.fsu.edu/photo1flash.htm
There is a link to the U of Michigan Marching Band website. Notice that several of the pictures show part of the 105,000 "stupid" fans at the game (we call it football).
http://mmb.music.umich.edu/
Post Edited (2004-06-02 17:59)
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Author: ginny
Date: 2004-06-02 15:27
I wondered how long it would take for some one to start the marching band bashing. Such posts are so often by a person who apparently has never seen a good live competition or performance, obviously ignorant, apparently trolling.
Until my son joined marching band I was not a great fan. Now I will continue to go to some of the competitions - just to watch - even after he moves on. They are truely enjoyable, theatric and musical, mixing geometry and musicianship.
AS to the stupidity of the audience... the parents in our band booster organization here in Silicon Valley (among the most educated workforces in the world) include an incredible number of Phds. both men and women and that's who's in our audience. Our last drum major was obviously stupid as well, a 4.2 average (college work in high school) - majoring in physics at UCLA and IN THE UCLA BRUINS MARCHING BAND. Oh yeah only stupid people like it = it is bad. Stanford and other schools that do 'scatter band' rather than a choreography are avoided by band kids.
It's not a symphony, true, but not all worthy endeavors are. Broadway shows are not opera, but they have their place and some are absolutely stunning.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2004-06-02 15:39
In additional defense of marching bands, when in college at the U. of New Mexico, my mother relayed to me the comment of another woman who said that she would attend the football games just to watch (and listen to) the marching band perform. (I always thought we were more entertaining than our football team.)
Although many competitions (state and national) for high school marching bands are held here in Indiana, I have never taken the opportunity to attend one. But the director of the Indianapolis Municipal Band, who judges many of them, often comments to us about the high quality musicianship of the top bands. To paraphrase Ginny, they ain't the symphony, but...
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Author: Contra
Date: 2004-06-02 19:04
Sometimes it takes more than pictures and sound clips to understand the real fun of marching band. When I first came up to ninth grade and went to marching band, I wasn't too pleased with it. The only way clarinets could be heard was if you were in the very front of the field. We had to march in very hot weather with few breaks. We had to play Dave Matthews Band music. My whole opinion of it changed once we went to our last marching competition. It was a real great experience seeing everyone finally get everything correct and I had no doubt that any woodwind couldn't be heard.
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Author: Pam H.
Date: 2004-06-03 02:41
I really enjoyed my high school marching band days. I went to a small school where many reed players were asked to switch to brass. Not everyone did, but I went from playing clarinet/bass clari in concert band to trombone in marching and jazz band in my high school. We knew that it was because the band director wanted a fuller sound. (Looking back, had I known then how easy sax is once you know clarinet, I'm sure I would have learned the sax a few years earlier than I did. That's another story though.)
I think the flutes/picc's can cut through better and still be heard.
Again, marching bands aren't just about the sound. While many do sound great, marching bands are part of the school spirit too. I remember that the cheerleaders often were right in front of us in the stands because they knew the band would cheer for the team. So this music geek actually learned a bit about the game of football too. ;-)
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-06-03 04:47
I find that most who hate marching band have never tried it. It's strange, as back in Clovis New Mexico, marching band for us was probably the most fun of the year. Now after moving up here to Anchorage Alaska, the only people interested in starting one are the people who've tried it before and moved up here. Any attempt to have our director start one meets with stout resistance from the rest of the band. The way I see it, once it starts snowing, we'll just switch over to being an ice skating band, no problem there...
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