 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-05-31 04:22
Sorry, but there are NO links here...I know the rules...
What I'm meaning to discuss is the very strange pictures of some "band" clarinets which are "German." The photos show the clarinet it the case, but each part of the clarinet is swathed in some paper/fabric/obscuring substance...
Does anyone really buy these things???
And what about those Fuschia/Gold/Puce/Periwinkle colors...
I'm disappointed in what folks will sell these days...
Even though there's "one born every minute" (this includes suckers AND crazy sellers), I guess I'm just wishing this wasn't so, particularly when it comes to clarinets...
Katrina
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2004-05-31 05:13
Speaking of CSO's (Clarinet-Shaped Objects), I've had a couple of encounters with them in recent months that really drove home what an uphill battle we're up against.
In my chamber orchestra there's a rather elderly gentleman in our French horn section. He doesn't play very well, but back in this younger days he was a professional studio musician, apparently quite good, and one would assume somewhat knowledgable on good quality instruments. Nowadays he has a side job peddling these Chinese import instruments. Before rehearsal one day he brought in a CSO and asked me to try it on for size (don't remember the brand). I noodled with it and immediately found the lower chalumeau way out of tune. I told him so, tried to gently explain that these are lacking in quality, but he couldn't get past the reasoning that these were "good enough for beginners." What's more, he almost reeled in a high school kid who was subbing for the other clarinetist in my section (an All-Stater, principal in our local youth symphony, and an R-13 player who wanted something for marching but is deserving of something much better than this thing). Both of these people should have known better, but they seemed to think if it looks and sounds like a clarinet, it must be good.
Then in this little veteran's-type band I play in, a little old man who always wanted to learn the clarinet came to our rehearsal this week with a fresh, shiny CSO in his hands. Never even held a clarinet before, but he wanted to learn and decided to go a music store that caters to one of the lower-income sections of town. He was so happy with his new purchase (and so unknowledgeable about music and instruments in general) that there was no point in explaining how he just wasted his hard-earned money. *sigh* Another one dead before he even hit the beach...
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-05-31 07:26
Hi, Kat 
Sad to say that I, too, have seen and touched, but NOT worked on, a few of these CSOs. The structural quality and intonation is so substandard that local repair shops won't touch them. They'll point out the misaligned pad cups, posts about to come out of the body from ordinary spring pressure, soft metal pivot screws -- obvious things anyone can see when shown and advise the person to try to get a refund. Some of these CSOs are borderline, others are pitiful. The big shops, and small independents (if they're smart), will not work on any of them. You can adjust them but they won't stay that way for long. They'll be right back in a week. No responsible shop can stand behind that kind of "repair". Most of these cheap horns will discourage (especially) any beginning student because even the teachers can't get them to play in tune. As Ralph says, you tune one note and the octave higher or lower is out, and so on.
"One born every minute," is so true, Kat - and so discouraging... because it's the kids who lose out on what could have been a good and enriching musical experience for them. Give 'em a piece of junk and they're turned off, possibly forever.
How 'bout, "There outta be a law!" ???
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: David Stringer
Date: 2004-05-31 11:46
You gotta love:
<<<"hand selected' composition ebonite of *ONLY*( the very best quality>>>
David
David
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-05-31 12:50
Marketplace rules, kids.
Music stores are competing against the wholesale stores, these days.
$150 for a CSO or $500 for a second hand Bundy - guess which sells?
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Author: John_May
Date: 2004-05-31 19:33
I guess the rule should be, don't buy anything you haven't played for long enough to be sure of. That's what I've always lived by, ever since my second horn, which only cost me about $250, but suited me fine (my first was bought for me). I'd never buy a clarinet off of Ebay, I don't think; if I wanted another good horn, there'd be no sense investing in something like that without play testing it, even if it was 30% of retail. It's still $1000+.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-05-31 19:44
Hi John,
I have bought 6 clarinets on eBay (a Leblanc Dynamic 2, a Leblanc L200, three Selmers - a Series 9, Series 9*, and a Bundy Mazzeo), and a Buffet Academy). I have sold 4 clarinets on eBay as well and have never had any problems. The total cost of all the clarinets I bought were less than the cost of a new R13; all are terrific instruments. Two need repads which I knew ahead of time.
What's the secret? Never buy an As Is instrument; you are usually asking for trouble. Expect to have the option to return the instrument if it is not right. On any of the clarinets I have sold, I always give the buyer the option of a return after three days. You may have to cover the seller's eBay fees or some shipping but that's fine.
eBay is a great spot to pick up some wonderful clarinets if you know what you are doing and can return if you are not happy. It is hard to imagine being able to locate so many choices from just local music stores. They can't tie up that much money in invertory.
HRL
PS I picked up a great King Tempo trumpet for my grand daughter and just got a terrific Buffet Symphony 227 flute, with low B, open-hole, and the Cooper scale for terrific prices.
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Author: Chetclarinet
Date: 2004-06-01 03:23
I buy and sell fine vintage Kaspar, Lelandais and Chedeville mouthpieces on Ebay often and have had good results. When I sell a fine Kaspar or Chedeville mouthpiece, I describe it accurately and give a 7 day trial with full refund. I do not use pictures. I rarely have mouthpieces returned.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2004-06-01 06:22
Ditto to what Chetclarinet said.
I make tuning barrels, and also sell mouthpieces on ebay. I am careful to communicate with the buyers and ask what type of instrument they are playing, etc.
I have sold to pros, and have also made many new friends in the process.
I have made purchases from Chetclarinet (see his post above),. He is one of the few who can get away with not using pictures, testimony to his reputation and thorough descriptions.
Point being....if you are considering a purchase on ebay, use the link that lets you contact the seller...ask questions and see how knowledgeable the person is.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-06-01 07:38
I feel I've taken a wrong turn, or missed a connection somewhere. What has making great purchases on eBay, and making wonderful barrels got to do with Katrina's point?
eBay is not the only outlet for these CSOs (love that term, Ralph ), just the most visible world-wide one where unsuspecting and uninformed people are buying "band approved, top quality, engineered..." etc., in good faith, only to discover they've been taken in by fraudulent advertising and sub-standard products that simply don't function as advertised. A lot of the CSOs I've seen were purchased locally at Sam's Club, Wal-Mart, etc. The band directors I'm in touch with are distrubed by this trend and its effect on their students. They take no pleasure in telling someone, "Sorry, Parent, this brand new instrument is a piece of junk. Little Johnny can't participate unless you find a useable instrument." (Grrrrrr) Students take other electives.
Katrina is not alone in this concern. The outsoursed musical instrument "industry" is apparently totally unregulated and out of control and nothing's being done about it.
- ron b -
Post Edited (2004-06-01 07:40)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-06-01 10:35
Ron B,
My comemnts on buying and selling clarinets was in response to John saying "I'd never buy a clarinet off of Ebay, I don't think" and I suspect that Chet and Alseg (both of whom I recognize as fellow bidders on several auctions) might have been responding to the same comment.
eBay is not a bad place to make musical purchases. You just need to know what you are doing which is why I pointed out not to be involved in an As Is sale unless you really know what is at stake.
HRL
Post Edited (2004-06-01 10:40)
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2004-06-01 13:39
<< eBay is not the only outlet for these CSOs (love that term, Ralph ) >>
I can't take credit for the term -- it's been used here longer than I've been a member.
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-06-01 15:53
To get back to Katrina's original observation: The market is currently flooded with cheap, Chinese-made pseudo-clarinets and saxes. Some are labelled something like "designed by French Engineering" or "designed by German Engineering" --- this is the alleged "German connection" of which she speaks. Every one of the Chinese saxes is externally a copy of Selmer's Super Action 80, but believe me, they are not Selmers. I have no idea what the Chinese clarinets are copied from, but I don't really want to know.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2004-06-01 16:25
Hank Lehrer said:"I don't think" and I suspect that Chet and Alseg (both of whom I recognize as fellow bidders on several auctions) might have been responding to the same comment."
yep, that is correct.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-06-01 17:15
Oh. okay, I see it now. Thanks for steering me in the right direction.
It's a new month, I'll try to mend my ways and give closer attention to... things
- ron b -
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Author: fredackerman
Date: 2004-06-01 17:18
I've done quite a bit of purchasing on ebay from Horns to Edison memorabilia, never disappointed! Feedback is very important, anyone with high percentages over 98% tell me what I need to know. Some people leave bad feedback before trying to work out a problem with the seller, hence a perfect score is not always possible. Yes, there are jerks out there, sometimes the response to your question will tell you all you need to know.
Fred
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Author: Contra
Date: 2004-06-01 18:12
[A lot of the CSOs I've seen were purchased locally at Sam's Club, Wal-Mart, etc.]
I remember seeing those along with a trumpet and a flute once. I remember them being about 50-100 dollars.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-06-01 18:46
Don -
The time had come, Katrina said,
To speak of many things,
Of crappy horns and folks misled,
Of scams and tricks and folks
Disappointed.
It started off with a familiar ring,
What is this Awful Thing?
This thing that's passing as a horn,
That's truly junk when born;
A piece forlorn.
What can be done? How far it will go?
The sad truth is...
No one really seems to know.
-rb-
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Author: CPW
Date: 2004-06-01 20:06
Once upon a tune-up dreary
my barrel I did think was weary
I felt really all alone
til I spotted that a custom taper cone
Some musical surgeon in his workshop did make
masterpieces that twer'nt no fake
And when reeds to my mouthpiece were forsaken
Out of my misery by Chet I was taken
So when on ebay I see glitzy bunk
I know that Chester and Clarinetconcepts
are there, too, and not just the junk.
So buyer beware
and get sellers that fit
There's gold in ebay's hills
and it's not always sh.... shaving cream.
Burma shave
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-06-01 20:31
There once was an Aunt in Nantucket
Whose kids could not carry tunes in a bucket
To save herself grief
And conserve principal, in chief
She filled it with their horns, and then sunk it.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-06-01 20:32
Vunderbahr, Ron and CPW, Youse r poets and now we knowit. Yes, EBAY is a real Show, but, lets not confuse cso's with ChiSympOrch, worlds apart ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-06-01 20:41
For a woodwind you're planning to shop?
Go to eBay and check out the crop.
The horn that you buy,
While in ample supply,
May just be a costly door-stop...GBK
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-06-01 21:01
Of course I'm tempted to join the poetry.
But, sorry, I'm not feeling up to it today. Plus, I really need to practice!
Henry
Post Edited (2004-06-01 21:02)
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2004-06-02 01:22
GBK, again, wins it hands down.
He's got it all over you clowns.
But there might come a day
When I re-enter the fray
And retake the title and crown.
Bob A
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-06-02 03:19
All come now and join us in verse,
You certainly can't do much worse.
Keep all the words clean.
Write nothing obscene.
Remember, the rules say don't curse ...GBK
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-06-02 15:57
I take up the challenge after all, GBK! Following is a slight variation on what I published here previously (and is applicable again!).
On E-Bay I bought my LL.
It may have been played by Reg Kell.
It's old and mellifluous,
when soft or vociferous.
I think when it's time it'll sell well.
I just couldn't resist.
Henry
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-06-02 16:20
On eBay one must use discretion,
but thanks to it for my collection!
My budget-priced axes,
both clarinets and saxes,
result from this eBay infection.
p.s. Henry's rhymes are the best, GBK's are a very close second (IMHO).
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-06-02 17:37
Dave...Thanks for the compliment. It's nice to know that there is ONE tiny area where I can (at least IYHO) perhaps stand my ground opposite the incredible and encyclopedic GBK!
Henry
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-06-02 18:04
My first entry into the fray!
I've bought and sold stuff on eBay
I seem to have figured the way
To not purchase crap
or get a bad rap
That is all I am going to say
HRL
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2004-06-02 18:13
A eBayer did once try to tell us
His horn was once owned by Marcellus
When asked for some proof
He was proved a goof
So we told him to please "go to hell-us!"
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
Post Edited (2004-06-02 18:15)
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-06-02 18:31
Bravo, Hank! Where have you been all this time!?
Henry
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Author: Vic
Date: 2004-06-02 21:08
Once, a clarinetist named Lou,
Bought on eBay from Stu,
A dark plastic stick,
That couldn't play a good lick,
And soon in the sun turned to goo.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-06-02 21:49
It's great to see so many rhyme.
All finished in so little time.
Although we make fun,
With a verse or a pun,
It's really a victimless crime. ...GBK
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