 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Buster Brown
Date: 2004-05-22 12:46
Just noticed on WWBW's website that the R13 with nickel keys is now $2095! Last week I received an E-mail quote for $1699. It's interesting that they now show the price on the website instead of having to send for it. Other R13 prices must be mailed for. Not sure if they're up too.
Think the increase is Boosey & Hawks or WWBW?
Sure makes the LaBlanc's, Selmer's and used horns look better. It will be interesting to see if WWBW will honor my 30 quote for $1699 when I go there in 2 weeks.
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2004-05-22 13:40
They should honor it if it's within the 30 days. Make 'em. Tell 'em even with the gas and toll fares you'll save money buying in Chicago.
BTW, Boosey and Hawks doesn't own Buffet anymore (I'm guessing that's why you asked if the increase was theirs). They're now owned by the Music Group.
I'm all in favor of used horns, too. There are those who feel that late 60s and early 70s-era R-13s can't be beaten. The wood available then, it is said, was aged so much better than the stuff today. I bought my own R-13 used -- it's only 6 years old now, but it plays great for me. Looks great, too -- the wood is nicely grained and the silver-plated keys shine like a new penny
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
Post Edited (2004-05-22 13:43)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-05-22 15:16
I wish you the best of luck BB. Will await your published results
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-22 16:55
Don't clarinet prices go up anyway around this time of year? (summer)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2004-05-22 18:07
Prices are going up due the the falling of the dollar. CNN reports that currently the Euro is worth 1.20 dollars. Retailers have gotta make up the cost somehow. They are afterall shelling out more to get these instruments from Europe.
Michael
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-05-22 19:26
It seems that we have much higher prices for clarinets here in Finland. I wonder, why is it so. The RC model is much more familiar here and it´s regular price is about 2300€ which is pretty much the same price in dollars. Some store is selling them for about 2000€. The main reason must be that stores are not selling them not nearly as many as in the States. WW&BW is selling Opus II for about 2000$ and stores in Finland are selling them for 3000$, for example. I think that´s pretty frustrating, don´t you think? ![[frown]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie2.gif)
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2004-05-23 01:31
Those pesky exchange rates in action again. Where I come from the opposite has occurred. They have actually gotten cheaper.
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Author: Bnatural
Date: 2004-05-23 02:28
figure i'll point out that vandoren raised everything... guess it's time for us in the US to contemplate buying US made
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Author: LeOpus1190s
Date: 2004-05-23 06:23
honestly, I would be all for a significant price increase on buffet r-13's if it meant significantly better quality control.
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Author: Buster Brown
Date: 2004-05-23 12:58
I expect we'll get nothing extra for the price increase, least of all quality control. It's difficult to believe the exchange rate can account for a 23% price increase. No other Buffet clarinet model price is listed on the WWBW website. I think I'll e-mail for some other model's prices. Perhaps, the increase is only on the most popular model the R13.
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Author: Buster Brown
Date: 2004-05-23 13:14
Interesting price info this morning. All Buffet models at WWBW are priced as they have been in the recent past with the exception of the R13. The Greenline R13 is now $200 less than the regular R13. I wonder if the website has an error or the old inventory will simply be worked off at the old prices? The used/open box etc. are priced at the old prices also.
I'm confused. The Leblancs and Selmer prices remain the same.
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-23 13:49
All 2004 Buffet Clarinets - all Models - were increased effective February, 2004. NO, the summer is not when prices are increased. The TMG letter stated that the price increase was effective for North America and was (primarily) due to the fall in value of the USD$ versus the Euro. Of course, since that time, net, the USD$ has rebounded v. the Euro.
OK, I have to ask - why would anyone limit themselves to WW&BW ? Why aren't you looking at Weiner, Muncy, etc. ? [ I only ask this question as WW&BW keeps on coming up ]
It's been my experience that certain dealers won't even playtest or oil keywork on new instruments. They have little markup - thus little incentive to check them out - but may respond to "sqawks" on an instrument-by-instrument basis.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-23 19:10
Oh. I always thought it was a summer thing since kids would be buying new clarinets for the new schoolyear and so they try to make a few extra bucks (kinda like the computers always end up going on SALE in the summer for the schoolyear in order to make more sales). I completely forgot about taking the value of the dollar into account.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-05-23 19:37
I'm just back after a two-week vacation in the Netherlands. I became VERY aware of the loss in the dollar's purchasing power since my last visit in 2000!
Henry
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-05-23 19:55
I have an old R 13 Clarinet I bought from former teacher Guy Deplus ..
and it is incredible...it is from 1971 and it sounds as in tune and warm as any clarinet available today.
David Dow
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-23 22:16
Alexi, AFAIK - most dealers of instruments & accessories provide updated dealer price lists at the Annual (January) NAMM Show. Here is a link to NAMM's website.
http://www.namm.com/tradeshows
Post Edited (2004-05-23 22:17)
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-23 22:23
Henry, how bad was it dollar to euro? Conversion to currencies is difficult @ times - an inexact science. Did you convert before you went or just rely on credit cards (which can have their own horrendous conversion systems)?
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-23 22:36
Didn't know that. Although I'm sure there is some clause or something that allows them the flexibility to change the price at any given moment.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-23 22:38
Just FYI (that I discovered)
Instead of waiting for an "email" quote from these companies that won't list the price on their website (WWBW, Music123, etc.), all you have to do is select "add to shopping cart" and begin to "checkout". Before you make any commitments to purchasing, you will see this weeks price. Just something I found out from somewhere.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-23 22:56
Alexi said :
"Although I'm sure there is some clause or something that allows them the flexibility to change the price at any given moment. "
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Not to Dealers. Dealer Price lists are quite firm as to price & when changes are made there is usually a "window of time" to effectuate purchases BEFORE the price increase takes effect.
Of course, Dealer price Lists vary. Dennis Bamber/WW&BW don't pay the same price that the "Mom & Pop Music Store" down the street pays. Price lists & actual dealer net amounts vary greatly. Word on the street has it that TMG recently has made deals that have raised eye brows @ long-standing large Buffet dealerships. TMG is a new player on the street & will get to apply their finance formula to ssee if they can make a financial success out of BC.
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-05-24 00:01
mw....I can't be exact but prices (in dollars) were up at least by 40%, relative to 2000. I charged most things, like car rental, to my credit card, so I won't know until I actually receive my monthly statement. In any case, Europe is no longer a good deal by traditional standards. And no wonder, considering the current squandering of our resources! (By the way, FWIW, I did not find a single Dutchman who had anything good to say about the current US administration. Very worrisome!)
Henry
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Author: ken
Date: 2004-05-24 00:56
Reality check; let us not get piggish. $2,095 for new entry-level pro horn is comparatively a great deal. Remember, we could be oboe, bassoon, bass bone or maybe tuba players ... and you KNOW what a major investment pro-line horns of those instruments run. v/r ken
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-24 02:45
MW,
I'm sorry. I misunderstood what you meant. I thought you meant that the price to the CONSUMER was set. I didn't realize that the dealer price IS in fact the price that the DEALER pays. Sorry. That I can understand completely (now that I fully know what you meant)
Ken also brings out a great point. Hell, personally, I would have NO problem paying 4 grand for a Rossi or Chadash or other custom built clarinet. All because, when you put it in perspective, we STILL end up paying much less than a pro-ANYTHING. I can't think of many other orchestral or wind instruments that cost less than a clarinet.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-05-24 12:24
Mark W., would you mind terribly citing your source for these eyebrow-raising deals?
To the best of my knowledge as a dealer, TMG has a pretty straightforward pricing formula for us. "Dealer Net" is fixed regardless of who you are or when you purchase. There are purchase terms that are pretty standard in the retail business that vary according to when the store pays for their inventory. This way a dealer can gain a pricing edge if they have cash on hand and don't have to finance or carry a balance. They may also run seasonal promotions with special breaks on the flavor du jour. If you are a big business, you are in a position to snag those horns at the additional discount, while the boutiques might have to sit out the promotion if cash doesn't permit.
The most significant disparity right now between big houses (Ash, WW, International, Muncy) and us little guys is the matter of inventory when prices change. This year, it worked to the biggies' advantage because they had significant inventory already acquired under 2003's pricing schedule. They can either price the increase in gradually by averaging their cost across all inventory, or just hold the line until they run through old stock and then raise it. Of course, this cuts both ways -- if prices fall, they are stuck with expensive inventory while the boutiques can get new stock at the lower price. Since it is unlikely that any of us are going to put on a currency hedge for reasons of cost and complexity, we just deal with the volatility of pricing. Such is the nature of global businesses.
Regards all.
Mark Sloss
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-24 13:19
Mark, we've never met. Email me for my phone number.
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2004-05-24 17:53
Clarinetist,
I go to Europe often to buy obscure sheet music. I go into every music store along the way. The prices for clarinets and reeds are always more expensive. In Paris, Brussels, Gent, Antwerp, Amsterdam, Berlin, Hamburg, Kiel, London, Rome, Milan, Istanbul, Vienna, and Prague, the cost of clarinets and reeds is always more expensive than in the US. Just like the cost of a gallon of gas; it's always cheaper in the US. Even at $2.50 a gallon it's still way cheaper than $5 euros.
One thing is that in Europe musical instrument stores are operated like mom and pop stores. The stores are small. In the US we have some big music stores that are run more like supermarkets than boutiques.
One time I asked the owner of a small music store in Gent why a box of reeds in New York is cheaper than in Gent. One box had been shipped across the Atlantic cheaper and the other had to travel 50km over the French border? He said that he can only buy small shipments of clarinets. It's easier and cheaper fill a single cargo container and ship it to a single market, the US.
So that's the logic.
Ron. Jr
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Author: Brad
Date: 2004-05-24 18:11
The Email quotes form WWBW are good for only 10 days. They garauntee their price to be the lowest for 30 days after your purchase. But the quote expires in 10 days. At least the ones I got last week do.
Brad Cohen
Clarinetist
la_brad@yahoo.com
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-05-24 18:11
Ron Jr. wrote:
> It's easier and cheaper fill
> a single cargo container and ship it to a single market, the
> US.
>
> So that's the logic.
But faulty logic they gave you ... the container comes into port, it's got to get inspected, broken down into smaller shipments, and then transshipped (in most cases) by another company a significant distance to a distribution point, and shipped from there to the retailer, or, if the retailer is large enough, they may be a "distribution point" themselves. It's really no different once the container reaches port - the additional step that should increase prices.
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-05-25 09:50
Oh, I see...Thanks, for the response. I wonder if you have somekind of tax in the US and how much? In EU countries there is the VAT. It´s size varys between different EU countries. In Finland it is 22,5% for the whole price. That should increase the price pretty much also.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-05-25 15:18
Regarding European music stores, I was told by several German music stores in 1999 that their prices were fixed. The largest place that I visited was MusikMarkt in Munich (about the size of Washington Music Center) and I didn't detect any real discounts. This probably explains why so many of those Mom & Pop stores are so well stocked.
Allen Cole
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-25 16:53
Clarinetist, IO don't know where you are from so my comment/reply to your query will be general:
Clarinetist asked:
"I wonder if you have somekind of tax in the US and how much?"
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We have Sales Tax in the U.S which is collected by individual states & localities. However, if an item is shipped directly to you at a location outside the U.S. by the merchant, the Sales Tax should not apply and will not be charged. It is possible to come here & look - then buy when you get home & have made your mind up. In fact, there are a myriad of possible permutations of the rules that would not assess sales tax in a sale to a non-resident of the State where an instrument is being sold.
Clarinetist also said:
"In EU countries there is the VAT. It´s size varys between different EU countries. In Finland it is 22,5% for the whole price. That should increase the price pretty much also."
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Generally speaking, when an item is purchased in the U.S. & then shipped to your Home Country there will be an Import (customs) Duty to be paid. The Import Duty in your Home Country may (somewhat) act as a form of VAT, while in other Countries you may have to pay both. Since the formation of the EU, there is no Customs Duty on items purchased from EU member countries.
Your mileage may vary & the info above is offered in a general manner. There are many exceptions to the rules & regulations, etc.
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