 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bkmorton
Date: 2004-05-20 14:21
I know that Howarth uses leather pads for their instruments and saxophones also; I was wadering why more makers do not provide them. You would think that they would be more durable and create less of a sound (as in percussive click when closing a hole) Am I wrong? Where if, they are good, could I buy a set of leather clarinet pads?
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Author: Fred
Date: 2004-05-20 14:44
There's a lot of info in the archives on leather pads - pros and cons. Check out the Search feature at the top of the page to see what has been said before. The biggest drawback that I can see is than not many technicians believe in them. Some don't stock the pads in Bb clarinet sizes. That could be old prejudice, or . . .
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-05-20 16:25
In general, leather does not "hold up" to moisture very well. Saxophones utilize leather pads, but ,saxophones being metal can withstand the insertion of "pad driers" whereas wood clarinets cannot. Therefore, there is not the market for small diameter leather pads and so.....
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-20 18:35
I haven't had any problems with moisture with the leather pads that the above Dave Spiegelthal has "installed" on my clarinet. And with my old clarinet, and the bladder pads, I had PLENTY. So whatever he used somehow HELPS the situation. Not hinders it.
BTW, what do you mean by "hold up" BobD? Do you mean that leather will deteriorate faster than a bladder pad, or that there is more of a tendency to gurgle with a leather pad?
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-05-20 18:35
Mileage may vary, but I've found that leather pads hold up very well. I've seen some (on a metal [Albert] horn) that were still in good shape after 70/80 years, believe it or not. I've seen some still good ones on wood horns too but have no clue how old. Ferree's sells white or tan kid skin pads... can't say off the top of my head whether they'll make up a set for you but, if you know the sizes you need just order a dozen of each. They're a bit expensive but won't 'break the bank'. They'll last a "lifetime".
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-05-20 18:55
For years I've been using Ferree's B32 ('bass clarinet") tan leather pads, which are available down to 7mm --- small enough for any soprano clarinet key except for the occasional tiny vent key such as one sees on German/Oehler clarinets, some Alberts, and some older Boehms which have additional vents not seen on modern standard Boehms --- for these I use cork pads. The leather pads will probably outlast yours truly who installed them.
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-05-20 20:39
Howarths installed leather on my R13 some time ago, and I now have problems FAR less often.
Howarths are probably the best technicians in London, so if they choose leather, that speaks for itself in my opinion.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-05-20 21:35
EXcuse me Dave, guess I must be wrong. Guess I was comparing my experience with leather in general with leather as used on clarinet pads.
mea culpa
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-05-20 21:49
I'd like to apologize to BobD for my blunt and rude response --- we're all entitled to our opinions and his is as good as anyone else's. Mea maxima culpa!
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2004-05-20 21:51
As far as I'm concern, leather pads are the best choice. They will outlast any pad on the market. With a little care they can last a hundred years. During high humidity months leather pads may become a bit sticky. Because of this reason they are unusable for a wrap around register key.
Nothing's wrong with skin pads but they just don't last long.
Cork pads are too noisy for my taste.
Vytas Krass
Pro clarinet technician.
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker.
Former pro clarinet player.
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-20 21:52
Very few technicians & hardly any manufacturers use leather pads on Soprano Clarinets. In fact, Howarth is the 1st manufacturer I have heard of that uses leather pads on Soprano Clarinets. Good luck.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-05-20 22:15
They're expensive, if you're trying to keep your profit margin up...
They're cheap if you consider how long they last...
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-05-20 22:26
The leather on some pads is quite porous. One can easily suck air through it.
Water/saliva soaks through and can swell the pads, upsetting seating and venting, and somehow eventually making the felt really hard. This saturated leather also seems to perish quickly. Hardened pads are unreliable.
Some leather pads are treated so that they are water and air proof.
On some pads this treatment may be a coating which fairly quickly wears through where the leather contacts the timber.
Some treated leather pads have inherent stickiness, which is quite a problem for saxophones.
So all leather pads are not equal.
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-05-20 22:36
Expensive??
As far as I know, you pay far more over here for a set of skin or 'Super' pads than you do for leather...
A set of leather pads from windcraft is £12, Skin are £16.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2004-05-20 22:42
>>>>So all leather pads are not equal.<<<<
I wouldn't know as I never used any pads made in NZ.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-05-20 22:46
Didn't Selmer go back to leather pads? And I know of several techs who use leather, although not exclusively (me too, not that it matters, as I only work on my own Clarinets).
Leather pads are available from Prestini USA (among other suppliers). They will sell any sizes (large or small), any quantity, pad sets for more common instruments, and pads made to order. They will do pads thick or thin, and if you are restoring an older stick that needs uniform diameter pads (cup size is the widest it gets), thay'll make whatever you need.
Prestini's contact info is at: http://www.prestiniusa.com/english/index2.htm
Regards,
John
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-05-21 01:52
"I wouldn't know as I never used any pads made in NZ."
What is that supposed to mean, Vytas? Nor have I used pads made in NZ (except the rare one I have made myself). Have you? Is there something I don't know about?
If you are commenting on manufacturing standards in NZ, I think it is pretty objective to observe that because of our remoteness, and our free trade situation, products made here are of a very high standard, almost without exception. We simply cannot compete with other countries in producing low quality goods.
I have bought pads in bulk from several pad manufacturers, and smaller quantities from most trade suppliers. For decades I have chosen to buy mainly from Music Center (formerly Pisoni, and maker of 'Lucien') in Italy, because of the variety of models, the high quality, and price considerations.
Post Edited (2004-05-21 01:59)
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2004-05-21 04:11
Gordon,
I know absolutely nothing about NZ and a quality of goods made there. It was just a joke. Sorry!
Couple years ago I bought Auguste Buffet clarinet. Horn was 85-100 years old. Most of the pads were original leather pads that looked more like the shirt buttons than the regular leather pads. Leather on these pads was very hard and seemed unusable. I've decided to use some leather moisturizer on them. To my surprise it worked like miracle. After this treatment pads became fully functional and 100 present usable and soft.
I don't believe felt gets hard from saliva. IMO, leather looses moisture and becomes hard. A good quality leather moisturizer is all that needed for leather pads and I wouldn't use any other treatment for the reason you mentioned.
Regards,
Vytas Krass
Pro clarinet technician.
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker.
Former pro clarinet player.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-05-21 05:19
I learnt that saliva can harden felt by disecting hardened Eb pads on saxes.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-05-21 12:44
No problem,Dave, I've put the matched set of pistols back in the safe.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2004-05-21 17:04
Gordon,
I've made my first pad myself in 1977 and the last one a couple weeks ago for a (1918 Buffet) doughnut key.
Cheers,
Vytas Krass
Pro clarinet technician.
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker.
Former pro clarinet player.
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-05-21 18:31
Vytas.... You made a leather pad for a Buffet doughnut key? I've made doughnut key pads out of cork or goldbeaters open holed flute pads, but never leather. Tell us more.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2004-05-21 22:00
Yes, I made a leather pad for a Buffet doughnut key. I've restored and repadded entire clarinet in leather so I didn't want to use anything else on the doughnut key. Works perfect and doesn't stick...hehe... what is there more to tell?
Vytas Krass
Pro clarinet technician.
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker.
Former pro clarinet player.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2004-05-21 23:33
How about a quick poll of leather pad choices . . .
Tan or White?
White is more conventional, but tan will avoid that stained look older pads get.
Any favorite (or un-favorite) sources/brands?
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-22 00:03
I opted for tan. For the very reason that you stated above.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: bkmorton
Date: 2004-05-22 02:29
Where can I get a set? I looked up prestini and the website does not allow you to purchase them online.
Thanks for all your help.
I am interested in trying them out. Oh
What glue works best for them?
Cement glue?
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-05-22 02:48
Call or email Prestini and they will be glad to take your order *after* discussing it with you to be certain you and they agree on what you need. They will accept credit cards.
I have always used Micro cement, heated. My favorite tech uses flake shellac, and he would use nothing else for that purpose.
Regards,
John
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Author: Wes
Date: 2004-05-23 01:16
As Gordon says, leather pads are porous. I am more concerned with leaks than how long the pad lasts. Leather pads on clarinets are something I would not wish to have because of the potential for distributed tiny leaks over the entire instrument. The effects on performance are subtle but, to me, real.
The Fox company did some tests with the white leather pads with and without a sealant applied. With a sealant applied, the seal of the bassoon improved significantly. I don't know what their present production pads are, however.
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2004-05-23 13:51
Traditionally bassoon pads are "waxed" in. Fox Products sells their wax if you are interested. Contact Chip Owens.
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