 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarinetfreak
Date: 2004-05-18 03:27
I just had a thought and was wandering what some of you thought of it? Is ethnic background a factor in the way we sound? I realize there has been some postings of different national sounds but what I'm wandering is, due to the different physical make up of different ethnic groups (for instance, an Asian person might have a bigger head than a white person and so on) have much baring on the way he/she sounds on the clarinet? Just wandering what people thought...
Good Times!
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-05-18 09:08
I don't believe so, Clarinetfreak. It seems perfectly obvious to me we're not all popped out of the same mold. Be glad we don't all sound the same. Perhaps the style we choose or type of music preferred might by ethnicity distinguish us somewhat. Tastes vary. Socially, people generally and naturally exchange and copy ideas and styles and exert their individual imprint by doing so. With music our sound varies slightly from person to person because we're all constructed a little bit different and you add your own imprint just by 'touching' it. Music, poetry, painting, drama, installing windows, whatever it may be, you add your personal touch to it by participating in "making" it. You can't prevent that. Personally, I don't think ethnic background determines how we sound. You'll sound like you, good or bad, according to how well you practice, not by your ethnicity. No one behaves exactly like someone else.
That's what I think.
Good times back!
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
Post Edited (2004-05-18 09:10)
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-05-18 12:27
This sort of question is the underlying sentiment behind a great deal of racist dogma. Nazi Germany undertook a tremendous measurment campaign in an attempt to quantify 'Aryan' features versus undesirable elements in the population.
Having a background that includes forensic anthropology I can tell you that the differences between individuals are greater than the differences between groups of people that like the same sort of cooking.
My professor in university suggested that race is less accurate a descriptor of a 'people' than palate and what fills the spice rack.
FYI - There are pinheads on ALL continents; many of them clarinet players.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-05-18 14:22
I think ethnic background (meaning body conformation) has little to do with sound, but the player's native language and culture certainly do.
Each language has its characteristic vowel sounds, and which vowel shape you make with your lips, tongue, soft palate and throat has a big effect on clarinet tone. The French and English "u" vowel sound are very different, and when I play with one or the other, I can hear that clearly. "What comes naturally" is, I think, the reason French players, as a group, tend to sound different from American players.
This may be urban legend, but I've been told that Korea has produced more than its share of operatic singers, and that at least one reason is that the "a" and "o" vowels in Korean are nearly the same as those in Italian.
At least as important as language sounds is culture -- what a particular culture is accustomed to and expects an instrument to sound like. Turkish and Greek clarinetists sound very different from what we're used to, not because their body shapes or languages are different, but because they grew up hearing and wanting to make different sounds. And when you listen to at least the older Czech Philharmonic records, the clarinets have a distinctive sound that's been described as "bosky" or "open air." In particular, the prominent 1960s Czech player Jiri Stingl sounded, by American standards, like an untalented beginner, and once you get past the truly bizarre sound, his technique and musicianship were very good.
The universal circulation of modern recordings has, alas, flattened out these national differences, but some of them still exist.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2004-05-18 14:25
Cultural background is probably a factor. If you grew up in Turkey listening to Turkish clarinetists, you're more likely to try to imitate their sound. If you listen almost exclusively to New Orleans jazz, you'll likely be influenced by that style. Etc., etc.
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2004-05-18 15:02
Ken Shaw,
Thank you for making this somewhat "provocative" thread (yep, I must have bigger head than you people ;( ..) into a very enlightening, multicultural discussion.
I never realized Korean a and o are the same as Italian ones. As you explain, now I understand why I had easier time pronouncing Italian than French.
Lucy Lee Jang
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-05-18 16:23
Lucy -
I was only repeating what I had heard. You're the one who can tell us -- do Korean vowels have any match with Italian? In particular, does Korean have the nice, open Italian "ah" and the "oh" without a diphthong?
Ken Shaw
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2004-05-18 22:18
That's right. Without a diphtong, for sure. So this poses difficulty for some students when they learn English vowels. The diphtonged [ai] or [ou] tend to be pronounced as /a-i/ and /o-u/, which sound odd to American/British
ears.
I don't pretend to be a knowledgeable phonologist, here^^..Just happened to learn linguistics in college...
Lucy Lee Jang
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2004-05-19 19:49
A pianist/physician friend of mine says that the ear bones in Japanese ears are different than those of central Europeans. As a result the pianos they (Yamaha) produce tend to be brighter than those produced in Austria or Germany (Bösendorfer or Steinway).
What I find interesting about this comment is that all people hear in different ways. Sometimes the differences are less pronounced, sometimes more.
However, all generalizations become irrelevant when speaking about individuals. As such, I feel that these types of speculative conversations have no real benefit.
Take care,
Ron Jr.
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Author: LeOpus1190s
Date: 2004-05-19 23:54
i have heard more like the having bigger lips can effect the sound quality.. some could say that those with like bigger lips typically in like latino and african american people could take away focus and make it sound quacky.
i have heard a few african american and latino players that do have that rather quacky sound but i mean listen to anthony mcgill or ricardo morales.
Im half mexican and half white... I'm not sure what type of "lips" i have but I tend to have a pretty good sound.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-20 01:03
Quote:
mexican and half white... I'm not sure what type of "lips" i have but I tend to have a pretty good sound. Then you're in luck! You can play on the right side of your mouth for that focused classical sound, and the left side for that quacky sound!
Or are you more of a "top/bottom" set up in which case you'll have to play an inverted mouthpiece for one or the other?
Alexi - who doesn't take much stock in something like the size of ones lips affecting the sound so much that it could literally sound 'quacky'. Although that could explain why Julia Roberts no longer plays clarinet . . . . ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
US Army Japan Band
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Author: ned
Date: 2004-05-20 01:44
I think this thread is totally irrelevant! We are what we are and I'm grateful for the differences, whatever the reason.
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2004-05-20 04:18
I take the multicultural approach. I play a Japanese made German system clarinet with a German mouthpiece on Australian reeds (made in South Australia) and I live in Australia (New South Wales). I play predominantly Jazz (American) or military band music (British), on clarinet that is. My saxophones (Alto and tenor) are French which I play with American mouthpieces and Australian reeds. My bassoon is German on which I play Australian reeds made out of French cane. I drive a Toyota (Japanese), my piano is Australian made with a German action and my landlord is Macedonian, although not a clarinettist. About half of my students are from non English speaking backgrounds including Mongolia, Fiji (Indian), China, Switzerland (French) and France. My neighbours at the back are originally Hong Kong Chinese (Cantonese) and next door mainland Chinese (Mandarin). Viva la bloody difference!
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Author: ned
Date: 2004-05-20 04:57
''I play a Japanese made German system clarinet.........''
Interesting............which mfr is it please? How many keys?
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-05-20 06:23
Yamaha make both Oehler clarinets (German acoustics and keywork) - YCL857 (Bb) & 847 (A), and also German acoustics design with Boehm keywork, YCL 856 & 846.
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