 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-05-18 13:32
Hi guys!
I have a recording of André Moisan playing some french composers works for clarinet and piano. There is a picture on the backside where André is holding his clarinet...and it looks like crystal with gold plated keys. Is it unusual to have a crystal clarinet? I haven´t come across them before. Have you? Who makes them and are they pricey?
I like the sound he makes very much, however it isn´t so much different than somebody playing on regular wood clarinet.
Thanks
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-18 14:47
Didn't they also have a "lucite" clarinet, Ken? Or is that just a different name for the same material?
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-18 14:53
The "Clear" Buffet Clarinet is a student model, a Buffet B-12. I believe it to be made of a lucite- related material. All that were made had the "gold alloy look".
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: justwannaplay
Date: 2004-05-18 15:11
There is a real crystal flute in the musical instrument museum in Berlin. Can they do that with clarinets? (Wouldn't it have to be a mighty big piece of crystal!?)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-05-18 15:14
We have gone into the many "plastics" that can be used to make suitable cls earlier, ABS is a terpolymer of acrylonitrile [an acrylic relative], butadiene, styrene, and a frequently used "acrylic" [Lucite etc] is Polymethylmethacrylate. Of course, I consider the "hardened" elastomers [even vulcanized natural rubber {mainly poly isoprene} ] to be in this "synthetic" category as well. As I recall a glass oboe on display in a "great house" in England, it was all open-holed, no keys, would be difficult to mount posts on glass, wouldn't it ?? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-18 15:39
Ah. I see! Thanks for the explanations. I always thought that they were made of the actual material "lucite". I guess whenever I've heard it, people must have been using it's slang definition. Now I know better for next time. Thanks Ken.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2004-05-18 15:49
ABS without the "coloring" will give you a white clarinet
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-05-18 15:50
Ah, I see. I think this is really intresting. Thanks, Ken for clearing things up! It´s looks kind of cool. Would like to try one! It doesn´t look like the material would sound different compared to wood.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-18 16:10
I have had 2 of these Buffet clarinets. One was purchased with a break in the plastic @ middle joint connection. We attempted repair with several materials. Based upon my discussions with the repair tech (one fo the best in the U.S. from my experience) I don't think the clarinet's composition material was ABS plastic.
Buffet's website may refer to ABS Plastic for student model clarinets, but these "clear see-through" Buffet B-12's were a special project & were likely made @ Edgware, England - not in West Germany.
Manufacture-wise, I've been told by Buffet that they were a 1-shot deal for the most part & that FEW were produced - with less than a thousand being made available - & probably well less than that. There were no specific serial number records available.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-18 16:38
Here is a Link to Kermit Welch's (a CA Musician) Website so all can view the "see-through" Buffet B-12. Kermit is playing the "clear B-12".
http://members.aol.com/welchsax/music.htm
Yet another Link to a photo ....
http://www.funnychord.com/clarinet.html
BTW: These Buffet Clarinets do come up on eBay from time-to- time. Unfortunately for those who would seek to acquire one @ a reasonable price, they are usually subjects of frantic bidding & final auction prices have exceeded $1000US.
Post Edited (2004-05-18 16:46)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: fredackerman
Date: 2004-05-18 18:25
I collect Fountain Pens [please stop laughing], my favorites are the Demonstrators which are in colors but also clear. Pelikan makes beautiful pens like these. I would buy a proven high quality clear horn in a heartbeat, but I guess that's not going to happen.
Fred
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-05-18 18:37
mw posted a link and there is a clear buffet that looks exactly the same as in that picture I have. Why those clarinets were made? Are these players having those clear clarinets just because they look unique or is it the sound they make that decides what they buy?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-05-18 18:41
Rite you are J G, TKS for refreshing our memory, we discussed Marigaux's oboe on April 6, concluding? it must be an alkylacrylate polymer , I never did find a price list tho! Sure would like one [an E H even better]! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: contragirl
Date: 2004-05-18 20:17
mw, did you buy that one off ebay? I remember seeing one on ebay a couple years ago broken in the same exact place!
I've been looking for the clear plastic Buffet myself. It's just a clear plastic with copper keys. Super cool.
I'm gussing it was just another gimmack like the dazzler line. Pretty colors and interesting variations for students. Hehe
--Contragirl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2004-05-18 20:40
mw,
You may be right about the place of manufacture but I have seen a clear Schreiber & Sohn, German system clarinet of the same material as the B12.
Best regards,
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-18 23:19
Jack, I guess I don't see your point. Buffet Clarinets were never made @ Edgeware, England. Nor were Schreiber & Sohn clarinets.
However, if I had been a marketing manager at Schreiber I would have screamed - "hey make us some, too!." After all, Schreiber was doing the assembly work for Buffet in West Germany.
Since BC & SS were both owned by B&H, plc, I would expect that we would see "clear plastic clarinets" under both brands.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-18 23:28
Contragirl, no I didn't buy either on eBay. The person who had the busted one on eBay, was still "purdy proud" --- and the price reflected same.
I see a lot of plastic clarinets that break at the Lower Tenon of the U/J. It's a likely culprit!
I think the quality of the Buffet B-12 is nicer than the Vito Dazzler. I have a "nude colored" Dazzler (complete with nude mouthpiece) that I'm thinking about entering in a contest to be called "Ugliest Clarinet in the World".
Good luck in your search for the clear Buffet. I traded the good one for a (killer w/95% original plating) Selmer Cigar Cutter Alto & I have never looked back (you may not want to sit in front of me either when I am playing it!)
Post Edited (2004-05-18 23:44)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-18 23:41
Jack, a review of my notes & some further research shows that Hugo Schreiber was in charge of Woodwind production for all of B&H, plc in mid-1980's. It could very well be that the Schreiber models were manufactured before the BC's.
As far as the Edgeware, England origin - I know someone who picked their clear Plastic Buffet Clarinet up there - and has the bill of sale.
For the record - there is no way to know whether final assembly was done @ Edgeware and the component parts were manufactured elsewhere.
Post Edited (2004-05-18 23:43)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: javier garcia m
Date: 2004-05-19 02:54
Don, according to the Marigaux 2003 price list, the 2001 professional series oboe is 6.315 Euros, with taxes and without case. The professional 900 series is less expensive, only 5.695.
An E.H. (model 930), 5.880.
A lot of money!!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2004-05-19 13:10
"I see a lot of plastic clarinets that break at the Lower Tenon of the U/J. It's a likely culprit!"
I don't see "a lot" but every broken plastic clarinet I have seen has been the same location. I have repaired two and the repair seems to be holding up with no problems.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-05-19 14:12
BobD -
How do you repair the tenon? Do you glue the broken part(s) back on? If so, what adhesive do you use? I've never had any luck with epoxy on plastic. Maybe model airplane glue, which melts the plastic together, would do the trick.
Do you do anything else to strengthen the part -- say, embed Kevlar thread in the glue?
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-05-19 15:00
Ken,
For repairing plastics, there are some two-part acrylic adhesives that work pretty well (chemical cousins of cyanoacylate ("superglue") but different), sold in many hardware and department stores --- also you can get liquid brush-on surface treatment (sometimes called an "accelerator" or "surface prep") to allow use of regular superglue on many types of plastics.
Failing that, good fix (but a lot of work) is to ream out the tenon area and insert a metal sleeve.
Kevlar threads in the glue probably wouldn't help, as the fundamental problem is the inability of the glue itself to bond to the plastic -- it's not necessarily a structural strength issue with the hardened glue (which a filler like Kevlar might indeed improve).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2004-05-19 15:29
mw,
By the time the clear Buffet's were made, the Schreiber & Sohn factory was producing the B12. Considering the cost of tooling up for a production run of a new model, it seems odd that such a small run would be assigned to the Edgware plant -- which AFAIK and you also point out, never made Buffet clarinets. I guess my point was that the existence of clear German system clarinets (which almost certainly weren't made at Edgware) with the Schreiber logo suggests that the production of the clear instruments more likely took place at the Schreiber factory in Germany though I don't have conclusive evidence. The fact that someone picked up a clear B12 at the Edgware plant, to me, doesn't necessarily prove that the instrument was manufactured there or even assembled there. Couldn't it have been shipped from the Schreiber plant after assembly as a convenience to the purchaser, or as a curiosity for someone at Edgware, or as part of a small shipment for sale as a novelty item (since Boosey owned both factories)? Buffet's are usually stamped with the country of origin. If the instrument is stamped "Made in England" versus "Made in Germany," then that would be pretty conclusive.
BTW, do you happen to know the date the clear Buffet was purchased at Edgware?
Best regards,
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: John Morton
Date: 2004-05-19 15:42
As far as I know, joining of clear acrylic is most often done with solvent cement. The brand one usually sees is Weld-On (IPS Corp.). Weld-On #3 and #4 are clear and runny - I think they differ slightly in volatility. If used properly, solvent cement will completely fuse the joined parts, leaving a transparent joint.
The trick in using the stuff is to have both joint faces wet at the moment they are assembled. This is more difficult than you would think, because the surfaces dry almost immediately after the cement is applied. I sometimes assemble the parts first and squirt the cement into the joint with a syringe. Capillary action encourages it to run, but invariably there are spots it doesn't reach. Also spilled runs and droplets dissolve their way into smooth surfaces and spoil the appearance.
It is sometimes worthwhile to make a shallow tray for soaking an edge prior to joining. And of course we all know the value of thorough rehearsal before performing the act itself!
There is a Weld-On #16, which is solvent with added filler. It appears to offer a longer working time, but I recommend against it because shrinkage is excessive.
Any plastics fab shop should know the techniques - I have only read some data sheets from manufacturers, and fooled around a lot. One has only to go somewhere like the Monterey Bay Aquarium to see what is possible, e.g. totally transparent mitered corner joints between 6" thick panels.
John Morton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-19 17:11
Jack, you seem to have your mind made up. There is more to the Edgeware story, but I see no point in discussing it further.
If you wish to take the position that all component parts were manufactured & then assembled in West Germany, it's fine by me.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-19 17:42
For (general) repair of the broken Clarinet tenons there are a couple of repair "schools of the thought". Those who glue/adhesive only, those who glue/adhesive & pin, and those who use glue/adhesive to install a new tenon which they have created on a lathe, etc. In the last year or so there have been some heady arguments on NAPBIRT regarding what is ultimately the best method. Those who participated were master craftsmen who had sincere & experienced vantage points. As you can imagine, there is no best way.
Without a doubt, Gordon & JB are experts in this area. Remember too, that there is no one glue/adhesive that repairers state is the one & only - THAT IS, NO BEST BRAND TO USE - however certain brand names have been repeated.
Post Edited (2004-05-19 17:44)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ray
Date: 2004-05-19 18:22
For what its worth, Buffet was not the only source of a transparent clarinet.
A friend owns a transparent clarinet that was made in Czechoslavakia. I want to say it is a Kohlert, but I don't remember clearly. I am pretty sure about Czechoslavakia.
The keys are gold colored with no copper tint.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Schwab
Date: 2004-05-19 21:15
Problem. While the clear clarinet might look novel when sitting by itself I can't imagine it looking all that appealing while being played what with the condensation and slobber being present inside of it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: fluteloops
Date: 2004-12-19 23:49
yeah, the clarinet is probably a Buffet (i didn't read what others posted, so this might be redundent info) and it really does play well. they don't make them anymore and the only place i know that has one is not selling it. (it actually happens to be where i work)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
