 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-05-12 17:02
Hello all,
I currently own a pair of 10 year old R13s, which I have owned from new and always looked after.
After trying some newer instruments recently, I feel it's time to move on.
So, the questions (and I know that most are US based, but I think it's still worth asking!) how much should I put this pair on the market for?
Is it a better deal to sell them as a pair, or just to replace my B flat?
Another question is one similar to selling houses, is it worth investing money on restoring them to tip-top condition (This would be my usual time for an overhaul) before selling them? Will I get the money back in the asking price?
So many questions!
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-12 17:34
Sell Clarinets Separately
Post Edited (2004-05-12 17:35)
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2004-05-12 18:05
Suggest you do an 'advanced' search on Ebay for R13's specifying that you wish to see completed auctions. From that you can see what they sold for.
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-05-12 18:23
Bennett,
Thanks for that, I had done an ebay search, but only on currect auctions.
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Author: Phat Cat
Date: 2004-05-12 19:18
As an ebay hound I second the post of mw. In general, for Bb/A pairs the sum of the whole is less than the sum of the parts. Since nearly everyone starts on a Bb, most folks acquiring an A already have a Bb and will be looking for the A singly. The exceptions are usually matched sets of rare or historic instruments. You should sell the double case with the A and provide a decent generic case for the Bb (or pay $40-50 for a used Buffet case on ebay). Inclusion of a mouthpiece will not increase the value unless it is a Kasper, LeLandais, Smith, Grabner, etc; in this case you should sell the mouthpiece separately.
If you do list on ebay, I suggest setting a relatively low opening bid with a reasonable reserve. Bidders for used high-end clarinets on ebay will very rarely make an opening bid close to the expected final selling value. As a seller you want as many bidders as possible, in the hope that someone will be willing to instigate a bidding war. The higher the price, the fewer bidders.
Most instruments with high opening bids get no bids at all and instruments with high reserves go unsold. Ironically, the highest final prices are ofetn achieved by instruments with a $1 opening bid and no reserve. Why? The dealers and collectors will inevitably bid a serious instrument up to its wholesale price. It’s the rest of the bargain hunters that are comparing to the price of a new instrument that you want. They will only enter your auction if the price starts low.
One final recommendation. If you are confident of the quality of your instruments, consider offering a 5 day trial period in which you’ll refund the purchase price (but not shipping costs). Such offerings really stand out to the serious buyer and usually achieve close to the maximum value in their class.
Understand that ebay prices are much closer to wholesale than retail. Since new clarinets have a healthy markup, you may be disappointed with auction prices if you paid anything close to full retail when you bought your horns. Since Bb R13’s are quite common on ebay and the 1990’s aren’t considered a special vintage for Buffet, a 10 year old Bb in excellent condition would bring roughly $900 -1000, maybe a couple hundred more. An A would likely bring a several hundred dollars more. I doubt that you will recover any amount you put into service, since most buyers of used instruments on ebay probably expect to service them anyway.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-05-12 22:26
For what you will get for the pair sold either separately or together (around $2100) I wonder what kind of new horn(singular) you think you will get that is the same quality. Suppose you do sell and buy new and then don't like the new horn! Why sell?....I guess is the question. I had a Karmann-Ghia once and when I sold it my wife said I'd be sorry......I am.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-05-13 03:15
bobD wrote: 'Suppose you do sell and buy new and then don't like the new horn'
well, i assume he will only buy a clarinet he will like.
definately sell them seperately. not many people buy pairs.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-05-13 03:21
Only consider selling your 1990's vintage Buffets if you really feel that today's instruments are superior as to the quality of wood and overall workmanship than they were 10 years ago.
Are today's instruments better? The jury is still out ...GBK (whose main orchestral pair of R13's is a 1965 Buffet A and a 1967 Buffet Bb)
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Author: Fred
Date: 2004-05-13 12:02
Also consider a top-tier overhaul. It could make your R13's better than they have ever been before. And in considerably better shape than a set of new ones will be in.
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-05-13 12:49
Thanks to all,
My local 'dealer' is actually Howarths of London, who set up all their stock really nicely before it goes anywhere near their shelves. They also have the 'best' technician I know.
I have already spent hours trying everything (and not just in the shop...), and I am already getting better results from Buffet, Leblanc and Howarth plus a few more, than I have ever got from my R13s, even when they are/were at tip-top playing order.
GBK's comment about the quality of various Buffet vintages is interesting, although I can't say I've ever heard of the 1990s being particularly good.
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-13 18:38
RAHMAN said:
"I have already spent hours trying everything (and not just in the shop...), and I am already getting better results from Buffet, Leblanc and Howarth plus a few more, than I have ever got from my R13s, even when they are/were at tip-top playing order. "
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Not surprising ... it's called personal preference.
NOW I'M GUESSING, but that said, trying a Howarth Clarinet @ Howarth is probably akin to sitting next to Francois Kloc & trying Buffet Clarinets that Francois has personally tweaked. I am curious have you ever done the latter? If not, perhaps your evaluation might change?
AND (along the lines of my Howarth comment) the latter might be true of sitting with the Leblanc, Yamaha & Selmer people at some big Clinic opr Symposium.
FWIW, I find that my personal prejudices usually OUTWEIGH & OVERCOME a particular instrument not being in tip-top playing shape - mostly because I know how I can get "my brand of preference" into top-tweaked form.
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-05-13 20:17
MW said:
NOW I'M GUESSING, but that said, trying a Howarth Clarinet @ Howarth is probably akin to sitting next to Francois Kloc & trying Buffet Clarinets that Francois has personally tweaked.
When I had already said:
"I have already spent hours trying everything (and not just in the shop...)
Of course Howarth are going to put a positive slant on their instruments, what saleperson wouldn't?
But, Howarth don't just sell Howarth!
My list so far sits at...
Festivals, R13s, RCs, Vintage R13s, Rossis, Tosca, S2s and S3s.
This is the list I have had on approval...(that's for an extended period, in my own home, with third parties often present)...and 90% of these play better than my current instruments.
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-13 23:28
RAHMAN said:
"Of course Howarth are going to put a positive slant on their instruments, what saleperson wouldn't?"
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NO, not what I was alluding to ...
What I meant was that Francois Kloc can tweak a Buffet Clarinet as few technicians can. Therefore, if you try one of those Buffet ("tweaked")Clarinets while trying another manufacturer's clarinets that have NOT been tweaked - well, it's not necessarily a fair comparison.
My assumption had been that you had sent the Salesman packing (on his way). IMO, that's always the first order of business ...
Frankly, I hope & assume that no one will be influenced by any slant, whether positive or negative. If they are susceptible, they need to be accompanied by a pro (who, hopefully, will not be influenced by any type of slant or hype).
Post Edited (2004-05-14 00:02)
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