 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-05-06 12:03
Impossible to recreate, freehand.
If this is an effective method, why aren't reed makers producing same?
If you soak your reeds prior to use, this is a sure way to get waterlogged.
No thank you.
(My Rigottis and Legeres play fine, out of the box!)
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Author: Bill_D
Date: 2004-05-06 12:17
I tried it, last year, with some soprano sax reeds. I didn't notice a difference, but I was just a beginner on soprano sax. A number of people on the saxontheweb forum reported favorable results.
Bill
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-05-06 12:48
"If this is an effective method, why aren't reed makers producing same?"
As the site indicates, the old Charpen reeds were made this way. I don't know if anyone still does this comercially.
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2004-05-06 12:50
The process is not originally Richard's. Another local identity, in Sydney, claims he taught Richard. I personally don't bother with the technique but having been a professional colleague of Richard for many years, and the provider of his favourite baritone, can vouch that he does have the fluency of range described. Great steel drum player also.
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-05-06 13:47
Attachment: B&HOsc.JPG (55k)
Attachment: B&H.JPG (57k)
This is not a very new technique. I have some old Boosey & Hawkes Oscillator reeds that were manufactured like this (see picture attached).
I never noticed that it made any difference in playing.
Hans
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-05-06 13:50
As mentioned on site, the Charpen brand reeds, made in the 1950s, had the same hole, drilled halfway through the reed at the top of the vamp. At that time, I played whatever I could find -- mostly Rico, Ray Maier, La Voz. Charpen reeds were no better and no worse than the others, and I couldn't tell that the hole made any difference.
In 1958, I switched to Vandoren and never looked back.
Oh, by the way, in 1958, people were complaining that the Vandoren cane wasn't as good as it used to be. I think that idea popped up when Denner made his second reed.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-05-06 14:46
I also remember the old Charpen "holed" reeds and played them for a while, I agree with Ken that they were nothing special.
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Author: William
Date: 2004-05-06 15:03
As to a related reed finishing technique, Ben Armato, in his very interesting book, "Perfecta Reed....and Beyond", describes a pin pricking method for fine tuning a reeds response. The wings of the reed are pricked with a pin instead of the normal knife or rush shaving for balance.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-05-06 15:06
And don't forget to take your Placebo Pills this morning, guaranteed to cure whatever ails you. And please add a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil to your engine to keep it running forever with ZERO FRICTION! --- and install that 100 mpg carburetor while you're at it.
Holes in the reed are a marketing ploy --- period. Don't waste your time.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-05-06 16:03
"Oh, by the way, in 1958, people were complaining that the Vandoren cane wasn't as good as it used to be."
I remember in the 1970's I knew players who told me that the reeds were lousy, but back in the 60's and 70's, they were really good. I have an old stock of Vandorens from the 70's-early 80's that I use. It is surprising how many people tell me "Oh, that was when they were good". People always want what you can't get.
Speaking of holes in the reed, does anybody remember the Gomez tool? (I think this was the name) I remember it as a type of template that you would use to put cuts into your reed to improve the vibration and playing quality.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-05-06 16:10
Back when Vandorens came in the purple boxes, people complained about how lousy the cane was and how few of the reeds played well. Now sellers on eBay are getting premium prices for those legendary 'purple box Vandorens". I even saw a seller trying to get a high price for the similarly legendary "brown box Ricos", which many of us will agree may have been some of the WORST reeds ever made.
As for people playing today on 'old stock' reeds --- you can't compare those to the same reeds when they were new. 20-30 years of aging does interesting things to cane reeds. The same box of reeds that was unplayable in 1970 may work great today. So if you have the wherewithal to do so, buy more reeds now than you need for your daily playing, and store the excess for the future.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2004-05-06 17:03
David and Everyone,
For several years I've been stashing away boxes of my favorite Alexander reeds in zip lock bags marked with the year of purchase. It will be interesting to see how they play after 10 or 20 years. Images of a reed wine cellar comes to mind! ha ha ha
Bootman was very helpful to me when I got back into playing after a 20+ year break and I have a lot of respect for him. Thus, a couple of years ago I tried his reed drilling process on some soprano, alto, tenor, and clarinet reeds. My first impressions were positive. However, after a short period of time and, in particular, after using some drilled reeds on gigs I changed my mind and went back to my trusty undrilled reeds. It seemed to me that drilling takes the "life" out of a reed. Shortly after coming to that conclusion from my own experience I was talking with Ralph Morgan and he got on my case for drilling reeds. His point of view matched the conclusion I had reached after trying it.
Personally, I've gotten much better results with fine-tuning my set up in matching a particular reed cut & strength to the mouthpiece of my choice. Then, forget about my equipment and practice....practice....practice!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-05-06 18:01
I was told (or perhaps read it in The Clarinet magazine) that there is a clarinetist who keeps his stash of old Morre reeds in a bank safe deposit box.
"Dear, if you are going to the bank today, here is my key. Could you run in and get me 2 Morre reeds for this week's concert?"
...GBK
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-05-06 18:27
David -
Brown box Ricos were pretty bad, but the worst reeds ever made were Vibrators (with the grooves cut in the bark). Nothing else came close. They even tasted dead.
I have an unopened purple box of Vandorens I bought in 1962, back when the boxes were made of cardboard and you got 25 reeds for about $2. I'll probably never use them, but only admire the box once in a while.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: bkmorton
Date: 2004-05-06 18:33
I played some non-used purple box vandoren reeds a few years ago and the Sponge-protector was disinagrating in the box. The reeds played good but there was a bad taste and I believe that I got an allergic reaction to the reeds.
EEEWWW!!
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-05-06 19:16
Now I understand! Way back then I was trying to play on the Sponge-protector, instead of the reed! Doh!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-05-06 22:03
Looks like youze guyz are too young to remember the newsprint insert that was in the CARDBOARD Vandoren boxes -- "In order to prevent counterfeits, Vandoren reeds will always be supplied in a box bearing the product number _____." (Can't remember it -- brain cells dying.) No plastic, 25 reeds in the big boxes and 12 in the little ones, and no sponge rubber. Back in those good ole dayz, they filled the extra space with extra reeds.
Durn whippersnappers.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-05-07 01:55
I remember the Whippersnapper... it played really well for ten minutes, then tried to put out an eye.
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Author: Tom J.
Date: 2004-05-07 18:07
"Back when Vandorens came in the purple boxes" the cane was lousy and there were many mis-cut reeds. The newer blue-box Vandys are cut much better and are more consistent but the cane is still the determining factor. A box with a good run of cane invariably produces more than 50%.
BTW, what happened to the Grand Concert reed when Rico sold out to Boosey years ago ??? There was a great reed with fine cane, ruined by a corporate takover.
Post Edited (2004-05-07 18:08)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-05-07 18:51
Regarding purple box Vandorens- I have an supply of these that I use. The cane generally very good. There is usually one miscut reed, once in a while two. I get most out of the box to play with only a couple of duds.
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Author: kenni
Date: 2004-05-14 22:18
ya know if you drill a hole deep and tight enough, it makes a great holder for a cigarette.
the next thing to consider is the ashtray. just attach a rovner cap on the lyre screw in a 30 degree angle.
both works like a charm!
i'm still working on a holder for a lighter. any ideas?
Post Edited (2004-05-14 22:21)
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-05-15 06:43
Hey, Ken Shaw: I actually played a few of "The Vibrator" reeds, back when I didn't know any better. Some would say I still don't, as most of my playing is now with Fibracell.
But now and then I still enjoy one from my stash of ancient Roy J. Maiers....
Regards,
John
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Author: donald
Date: 2004-05-15 10:00
i went through a phase of drilling holes into Mitchel Lurie reeds (impersonating the Charpen hole) when i was about 15 years old (1984 i think)..... it was a good way to waste time and avoid actually learning my scales..... maybe if i hadn't wasted time on stuff like that, i'd have a better gig now.... do you think i can sue Charpen?
donald
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Author: deepriver27
Date: 2004-05-16 14:22
My take on this is that reeds are very sensitive and not conducive to any adjustment that includes power tools. That would be like refacing my mouthpiece with a chain saw.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2004-05-17 02:17
A similar technique is to make a few cuts with a razor blade across the thick part of the reed near the bark. It makes the reed more flexible but does not remove the mass of the reed. A mechanical structures engineer could write some equations simulating this but it would not help one's playing. It's fun to try but not productive in the end and it is not easy to repeat the process exactly. I used to do it on occasion if a tenor sax reed was not responding easily in the low end.
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