 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Betty
Date: 2004-05-04 15:51
Why are so many Reeds unplayable out of the box? You can spend a fortune on reeds and still end up with duds. (Using Mitchell Lurie premium french cut 3.5) I like these reeds but oh, do I hate spending money on unusables!! There's nothing like needing a new reed (NOW!) and finding only a couple of good ones in the box. You know the kind: free playing with little effort, your head doesnt feel like its going to pop off from trying to 'break it in'.................
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rick Williams
Date: 2004-05-04 16:25
Too hard or too soft can be easily fixed with either sand paper or a trimmer, but out of balance is a pain. Softer or harder from on side to the next.
I play either with a Legere or Gonazales FOF for the very reason you cite and have had good luck with both.
As too why? Propably because people keep buying them despite quailty issues.
RW
Best
Rick
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda
Date: 2004-05-04 17:20
Oh, I thought this said "Burn reeds"! Not a bad activity when you get upset with the stack of unplayables.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: CPW
Date: 2004-05-04 18:29
Yeah...all those lazy reeds sittin' 'round on streetcorners doin dope..BUMS.
OTOH if you reshape them with Dutch tall grass, you get..........
THE BUMS RUSH!
(oooh that hurt)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: msloss
Date: 2004-05-04 18:51
Don't think of it as $1.50 per reed. Think of it as $7.00 for a good reed. If you are good with a knife, you might get your cost down further. Financial incentive to get good at adjusting.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2004-05-04 18:56
msloss wrote:
> Don't think of it as $1.50 per reed. Think of it as $7.00 for a
> good reed.
I often think back to what a very prominent clarinetist (and valued contributor to the bulletin board) once told me. In selecting a reed for a performance at one of the recent Clarinetfests, he chose the one best V12 reed out of 3 boxes.
For him it was more like a $50 reed...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jo.clarinet
Date: 2004-05-04 20:34
I'm using Gonzalez FOF reeds at the moment and am really pleased with them - haven't yet had even one bad one. They seem to last well too!
Joanna Brown
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-05-04 20:37
I say again: if you're not getting 75% or so playable reeds out of a box from a reputable manufacturer, then the problem is your MOUTHPIECE. A mediocre mouthpiece will play OK with a certain (low) percentage of reeds, so you might think your mouthpiece is fine but the reeds suck --- HOWEVER a really good mouthpiece will make most reeds work acceptably or better. Do yourself a favor and go try dozens (yes, dozens) of mouthpieces, using a wide variety of reeds. It will be time-consuming, but once you find that magic mouthpiece you'll probably never complain about reeds again (unless of course you're either a perfectionist or a chronic whiner......but I digress).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-05-04 21:27
David Spiegelthal wrote:
> I say again: if you're not getting 75% or so playable reeds
> out of a box from a reputable manufacturer, then the problem is
> your MOUTHPIECE.
Then a lot of people making their entire living playing clarinet need to get a new mouthpiece ...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-05-04 22:33
Perhaps definitions of "playable" are different? I can practice on about 8 out of 10 reeds from a box. About 4-5 I would take to a rehearsal, 1-3 to a concert.
I find it's a matter of ever-increasing standards. Whenever I get an equipment upgrade, more reeds out of a box "play well," as also happens when I have a breakthrough in technique. Once I get used to that setup, I get pickier, and my criteria for "playing well" become more stringent.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-05-04 22:35
If your reeds are bad it's your mouthpiece?
Ok...so there are mouthpieces out there that fix unbalanced reeds, warped reeds, reeds cut too thin at the tip, reeds harder or softer than marked, reeds cut unevenly at the shoulders??
Wow! Have to get myself one of those!!
I'm looking forward to choosing it...trying dozens of mouthpieces each with a brand new box of reeds to check whether or not this theory is accurate and it's worth buying!
Hang on a second...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Joel Clifton
Date: 2004-05-04 22:38
I use Vandoren V-12s, and very few are unplayable. Maybe you should give them a try. I used to use regular Vandorens and I would get perhaps 3 good ones out of the box.
-------------
"You have to play just right to make dissonant music sound wrong in the right way"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-05-04 22:51
Mark wrote:
"Then a lot of people making their entire living playing clarinet need to get a new mouthpiece ..."
Although you may have said that ironically, I believe that many professionals would also benefit from better mouthpieces --- being pros, they have adjusted, and continuously adjust, to their setups and make them sound great. But I betcha those pros that only get 1-2 good reeds per box would still get a lot more concert-quality reeds on a 'better' mouthpiece. It's like tennis or golf pros with a bad grip or weird swing --- sure they adjust and do very well, but quite possibly they'd do just as well, maybe better, if they had the opportunity and desire to 'quit' playing for long enough to change their grip/swing --- just as an advanced clarinetist would take a while to adjust to a new mouthpiece.
On the other hand, in the jazz world at least, many of the most distinctive-sounding players sounded the way the did, at least in part, because of the flaws in their mouthpieces and/or instruments (e.g. Stan Getz, John Coltrane, Eddie Harris come to mind immediately sax-wise).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: saxlite
Date: 2004-05-04 23:32
Once again, I strongly suggest those who don't get many good players from a box can save big time with Tom Ridenour's ATG Reed Finishing system. I was amazed at how many duds I got to work, and how much better than ever most of them were. Since reeds are made of natural materials, no two are alike internally; therefore a standard method of machining them to a set of dimensions however precise will not produce "peas in a pod" results. The only solution is to individually test and finish them. Although there are many approaches, Tom's is simple and direct and easily grasped. Well worth the price!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-05-05 00:06
Saxlite,
I'm intrigued...but you almost seem to contradict yourself.
Surely a reed finishing 'system' is based on a standard set of parameters, and so in a sense is aiming for your 'peas in a pod' idea. As 'no two are alike internally' (here I totally agree...) surely by always doing the same things to them, you won't improve them.
I know nothing of the system you mention, but I have seen things like the reed wizard, and Vandoren's numerous 'solutions'.
In terms of investment, I would put my money on a piece of wet and dry sand paper, a good clipper (they need to be trialled almost like mouthpieces, hardly any cut, most just crush) and a sharp single bevel (sp?) reed knife. Then, lots of practice and trial and error!
I'm interested in what you think...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-05-05 00:15
David Spiegelthal wrote:
> Mark wrote:
> "Then a lot of people making their entire living playing
> clarinet need to get a new mouthpiece ..."
>
> Although you may have said that ironically, I believe that many
> professionals would also benefit from better mouthpieces ---
It may be our differing standards:
Some professionals make their own mouthpieces and find a couple of good concert-quality reeds out of a box; are we saying that they should make better mouthpieces than they do now?
A pro's standards are generally much higher than ours; what they might find playable I might find as concert quality; what I find playable might be junk to a pro.
As to the "ATG Reed Finishing System" - nothing there is a secret but - Tom Ridenaur's a marketing genius and deserves applause in packaging and selling something that's of genuine use to people that can't get to a seminar on reed finishing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2004-05-05 07:10
Betty --
Strange that you should have such a problem with the Lurie Premium reeds, which I find to be more consistent (or is it "less inconsistent"?) than most of the brands on the market.
Since you find that few of your Lurie #3 1/2s are "free playing with little effort", I'll bet that if you buy #3s you will find many more playable reeds.
Let us know.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: OpusII
Date: 2004-05-05 08:47
Most brands fill their boxes with different strength reeds… they do this because some players play just a bit lighter than 4 and some want it just a little bit stronger. So a box strength 4 is not completely the same strength (but probably about 3,8/3,9/4/4,1/4,2). So you will always have to adjust some of them…
Also some reeds wrap to the change of climate (moisture) and need to be resurfaced (lightly sanding de back except the tip) This will make much difference, because the reed has a better contact with the mouthpiece. (just try to vibrate a wrapped paper and you will notice de difference)
But remember hand finished reeds are the best of reed that you can get after some practicing….
Eddy
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Karel
Date: 2004-05-05 11:01
Since I have been using Tom Ridenour's ATG reed finishing system I have not had to discard a reed. And easy to use. What more can you ask for costing only 2-3 boxes of reeds, knowing it will banish your reed problems for ever?
Karel.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-05-05 11:36
This is such an important issue, and has not surprisingly raised the interest of two posters who both have opinions I value highly...
From first principles, it makes sense that the mouthpiece used be properly made... many machine made mouthpieces have rails that follow different curves, which may add to the difficulty of playing a good reed under all circumstances.
Having played several of Dave Spiegelthal's mouthpieces, I can say with surety that attention to the curve makes a substantial difference.
It is my belief that when a player wades through buckets of machine made mouthpieces, they're looking for one with the best balance - comparing the side rails and length of curve.
Anyone with a handful of measuring "feeler" gauges and a Morgan kit can see the variations first hand.
******
Secondly, concerning standards -
I believe that MC has a valid point about professionals squeezing the last Iota of performance from their gear. A perfectly playable reed for my use will not give the sort of output my teacher demands from her reeds.
She gets paid to play. I pay for the privelege of study with her.
She spent three hours down at D'darrio going through a bucket of M30s until she found three that were best... they play the same to me!
The object of the exercise was to get the best overall sound with the least amount of reed fuss - laudable pursuits for any player.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: saxlite
Date: 2004-05-05 14:29
RAMman:
no contradiction here-the ATG system does not work "to a set of dimensions"---rather it balances the reed tip edges and then matches the the reed to the rails of the particular mouthpiece. One tests the response and then makes the changes called for to optimize the response.
It also uses a completely different approach to sanding the surface, one that opposes the standard "seminar" teaching.
I suggest you check it out before pooh-poohing- this system is gaining lots of supporters.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-05-05 16:06
I wasn't 'pooh-poohing', like I said I was intrigued.
So, if the 'system' actually teaches the importance of trial and error and individually tailoring reeds to suite ones playing and setup, then I applaud it.
However, you must have seen many of the 'systems' out there which always just slice the same amount of a reed, and then claim that each reed will be balanced and suitable for your next concert.
I was interested to know which of these categories the 'system' you reffered to fitted in to.
Myself, I don't need to investigate a system. I'm happy with the way I work my reeds and the results I get from it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2004-05-08 21:30
Sometimes "bum reeds" are due to the insistance of mounting every single reed on the mouthpiece exactly the same way. THIS WON'T WORK.
If the reed feels a little soft, mount it a hair higher than normal and/or move the ligature up a bit.
If the reed feels a bit hard, mount it a hair lower than normal and/or move the ligature down a bit.
If the reed seems simply a bit sluggish, try mounting it very slightly to one side or the other.
If the tip warps when you moisten it, let it soak a little longer and it may flatten out. If it does not, simply "presss" the tip of the reed against a smooth flat surface.
Also keep in mind that reeds change as they get played. Just because it doesn't play well out of the box, doesn't mean it isn't good. After a little break in, it may be your best reed.
Another problem occurs when the player doesn't sufficiently rotate their reeds. They get so used to the way a particular reed plays as it wears out that when they open a new box, they can't find any that feel right. I strongly recommend keeping a rotation of 10 reeds going at all times. This way your embouchure is accustomed to dealing with normal reed variations. You should be able to easily accomodate the +/- 1/4 strength of reeds in a typical box.
The above comments assume that you have a decent mouthpiece and that the reed strength is correctly matched to the mouthpiece design. And that the mouthpiece design/reed combo is appropriate for your level.
A good mouthpiece is essential and is even more important for a beginner than for an expert.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: john gibson
Date: 2004-05-10 00:08
600 grit sandpaper taped to a piece of beveled glass.....a cordier clipper....
a good reed knife.....
Dee....had the perfect response.....amen.
John Scorgio.....I too find Mitchell Lurie Premiums to be the best on the market. Usually ALL are players.
Now shut the door and practice......
John Gibson....THE clarinator
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
