 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: hue
Date: 1999-12-12 16:41
has anybody had any experiences with the Optimum ligature by Van Doren? I just bought one (on trial) and I cannot figure out what all of the fuss is about... i like my cheap Bonade much better... Any thoughts?
Thanks!
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Author: Bino
Date: 1999-12-12 20:05
I also just bought an optimum ligiture and rather enjoy playng on it...It tends to focus my tone better than the Bonade...On my setup the bonade lig tends to give me an overly dark not as focused sound while the optimum focus' my tone and gives me the mellow sound I am looking for...I play on a Vandoren M13(Lyre), Optimum Lig, and Chadash barrel... I use my Bonade as a backup to the Optimum...But enough about me, this is about you...Whatever works for you (no matter what the price tag says) is what you should use...If the Bonade works better play the Bonade...Good Luck on whatever you decide... Bino
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Author: barry
Date: 1999-12-12 22:37
I found the Optimum rather stuffy, no matter which of the plates I used, and went back to a Rovner on my teacher's advice. But I've been using an Oleg ligature for the past couple of months, and I love it. I have the impression it helps me produce a more homogenous sound,and it certainly makes it easier to hit the high notes. The price made me wince a bit, however.
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Author: Dave Blumberg
Date: 1999-12-13 02:17
I have found just the opposite. When my students try the Optimum going from the Rovner - it sounds like a blanket was lifted off of their clarinet.
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Author: William
Date: 1999-12-13 14:34
Whever I try a Rovner, it is like putting a blanket over my horn. I too prefer the Bonade reverse to the VD Optimun.
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Author: Jake
Date: 1999-12-13 15:10
Which plate do you guys use on the ligature?
I have found plate #3 gives the most clear and
resonant sound. #3 is the one with 4 contact
point.
anyone tried the new Bay ligature?
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Author: William Fuller
Date: 1999-12-14 01:37
My experiance with Bay ligs was negative in the sense that the tone quality was not that much enhanced by their use over other metal ligs(M. Lurie, Bonade) and they kept breaking at a weak point caused by the engraving used to dress them up. Charles did supply me with replacements and told me not to tighten them so much. I never did overtighten a lig--only snug them up--so i think that there is a design flaw in Bay's design that is the cause for the breakage. I now use the Winslow exclusively on all of my clarinets and saxohones and highly recommend them.
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Author: Joel K.
Date: 1999-12-14 14:06
I used the Optimum for a while. Although the screw action of the ligature and security of the reed on the mouthpiece are pretty much unimproveable, I found the sound a bit uncentered for my taste and have gone back to using the cloth BG ligature I was using before. I prefer the BG over the Bonade which I also own.
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-12-15 17:17
I had a highly respected mp maker tell me that his mps don't work well with cloth ligs, such as the Rovner. Metal ligs are okay (either standard or reverse style), but he mentioned that cloth ligs won't stay on the mp very well. He was neutral on the resulting sound from either style of metal lig.
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Author: TME
Date: 1999-12-16 01:32
Hi. I purchased the Vandoren Optimum ligature two years ago and my sound has really opened up. I generally don't bother much with changing the plates around. I generally leave the waved plate on. This ligature isn't necessarily the right one for everyone but I use this ligature in conjunction with M13 Vandoren mouthpiece and this combination works really well for me.
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Author: Mark Weinstein
Date: 1999-12-17 02:15
OK - so WHICH plate does everybody like ??? It seems that the Optimum is a popular ligature. SO, vote here & tell us which plate brings out the best in your sound.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-12-17 02:25
Mark Weinstein wrote:
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OK - so WHICH plate does everybody like ??? It seems that the Optimum is a popular ligature. SO, vote here & tell us which plate brings out the best in your sound.
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Curiosity, Mark - what will this accomplish?
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Author: Mark Weinstein
Date: 1999-12-17 03:44
I have been thinking of trying the Optimum Ligature(particularly since it has the "stamp of approval" of many teachers & professionals I have a lot of respect for).
I have previously been told that many players prefer one plate to the **exclusion** of all others. In fact, I had been told that many had gone as far as modifying the Optimum ligature slightly. However, which plate they preferred escapes me and I was curious. We had a number of very positive responses here. The request had gone out earlier from another person posting here. I was echoing the query.
Why was it important for you to know why I asked for this feedback ?
mw
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-12-17 12:21
Mark Weinstein wrote:
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I have been thinking of trying the Optimum Ligature(particularly since it has the "stamp of approval" of many teachers & professionals I have a lot of respect for).
[...]
Why was it important for you to know why I asked for this feedback ?
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Because I find many of these so-called "surveys" to be of dubious worth. The way I feel - if you try it, like it, and buy it - then you've formed your own personal opinion and of course it has some value. In the Optimum's case, there's those 3 plates. You can't buy it _without_ the 3 plates, so whatever plate works for you will be your general favorite. What other people use for a plate is in a sense immaterial since you'll have the plates to experiment with for yourself.
I'm assuming that you've tried the ligature and haven't bought it yet. If you haven't tried it, then all those endorsements really don't mean much except that it's well constructed and has the possibility of being a good ligature for you.
In the area of equipment, I like looking at the "gimmicks", and some actually work for me. My teacher tries out just about every new thing for fun - he's got a few drawers full of them! Doesn't _use_ many of them steadily, though :^)
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 1999-12-17 14:23
Mark Charette said:
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"I find many of these so-called "surveys" to be of dubious worth."
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I disagree. You are NOT intitled to my opinion! Period.
"The way I feel - if you try it, like it, and buy it -then you've formed your own personal opinion and of course it has some value."
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I don't feel that way. I like to hear what others have to say. No sense in making a mistake or wrong turn where you can learn from the experiewnce of another. That is what this Board is about.
"In the Optimum's case, there's those 3 plates. You can't buy it _without_ the 3 plates, so whatever plate works for you will be your general favorite."
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I don't care how many plates it has. If I want to know, as others here do, which plates are preferred --- that ia a legitimate query. I guess this means that you have the right to limit questions & answers beacuse you believe they are of **DUBIOUS** value ??? Please ...
"What other people use for a plate is in a sense immaterial since you'll have the plates to experiment with for yourself."
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Wrong again. WOW --- you'd better re-read what you wrote. Teachers all over the country are reading this.
"I'm assuming that you've tried the ligature and haven't bought it yet."
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Why would you **ever** assume that? In fact, I have never seen one except in an advertisement that coes in V-12 breed boxes.
"If you haven't tried it, then all those endorsements really don't mean much except that it's well constructed and has the possibility of being a good ligature for you."
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You obviously have a "bent" against endorsements. You are entitled to your opinion; however please don't try to impose them upon me. I'll do the same for you.
In the area of equipment, I like looking at the "gimmicks", and some actually work for me. My teacher tries out just about every new thing for fun - he's got a few drawers full of them! Doesn't _use_ many of them steadily, though :^)
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The entire purpose of this Boards is the sharing of information between people who have a common interest. When you limit soneone's ability to collect that info, that is execising an extreeme amount of editorial control?
Why are you doing this ?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-12-17 15:38
Mark,
maybe you feel I'm cutting you down or something - that's not the intent.
As you've no doubt read many a time here, we encourage people to try things rather than take anyone's word for it. That's what I'm telling you. Just because someone uses it and likes it has no _real_ bearing on whether or not you'll like it (as long as that something is manufactured well).
A "survey" of what people like _is_ of dubious worth - as most surveys are. Do you remember "Family Feud" (an old TV show in the USA)? It was hilarious! Some of those "Survey Said" answers were totally ridiculous - just because many people "believed" something doesn't make it true.
Do I believe in endorsements? Not particularly. Go to a major clarinet convention and see what those endorsers use. Sometimes it's what you read about in the ads, sometimes not. The ads may be _years_ old, or the person may use the product only occasionally.
People are free to answer you - I'm not editing the posts out - but to me your survey falls into the "what's the best clarinet" genre.
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 1999-12-17 21:14
Mark Charette said:
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"...maybe you feel I'm cutting you down or something - that's not the intent."
I don't know/care what your intent or agwenda is or was. You are wrong. IMHO, you were "force feeding" your OPINION. I've got my own, thanks. I asked an honest question, the answer of which was important to me. You **DECIDED** it wasn't an appropriate question. You have no such right.
"As you've no doubt read many a time here, we encourage people to try things rather than take anyone's word for it."
I have every right to ask the opinions of others. You have no right to limit any such questions. We'd be exactly **no where** if people didn't share their experiences with products with others. This is going from the sublime to the ridiculous! You are wrong & have overstepped your bounds!
I have had at least 5 emails today from professionals & teachers who feel as I do. Stop editing & limiting the speech of others.
"That's what I'm telling you. Just because someone uses it and likes it has no _real_ bearing on whether or not you'll like it (as long as that something is manufactured well)."
Where is the evidence to prove your statements/conclusions?Obviously, you must have done scientific analysis to form the basis for your statements.**IF** I followed your logic, I would operate in an vacuum that holds that when people find a product useful, those who rely on any such information always do so to their detriment. NOT.
"A "survey" of what people like _is_ of dubious worth - as most surveys are."
I disagree. Your generalizations are absurd.
"Do I believe in endorsements? Not particularly."
That is apparent.
"Go to a major clarinet convention and see what those endorsers use."
I have. Want to tell me what I saw and experienced ? Better still, maybe you will tell me which ones i can go to and which ones I cannot attend ?
".... I'm not editing the posts out - but to me your survey falls into the "what's the best clarinet" genre"
Survey? How ludicrous! What we have here is an attempt on your part to limit free speech. You did your best to stop any responses to my query. Congratulations.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-12-17 21:19
mark weinstein wrote:
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You have no right to limit any such questions. We'd be exactly **no where** if people didn't share their experiences with products with others. This is going from the sublime to the ridiculous! You are wrong & have overstepped your bounds!
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Hello???? Have I limited you in any way?
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Stop editing & limiting the speech of others.
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Where? What?
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What we have here is an attempt on your part to limit free speech.
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Oh well, Guess you don't know what "free speech" means ...
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 1999-12-17 23:00
IMO, those are childish & immature responses. Sometimes we have to admit when we are wrong. I didn't attempt to impose standards/limitations/generalizations upon you. The written record reflects that you attempted to do that with me.
Let me guess, is your response "who, what, when, where" ?
Its all yours, you can even erase this !
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Author: Daniel
Date: 1999-12-17 23:24
mark weinstein wrote:
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IMO, those are childish & immature responses. Sometimes we have to admit when we are wrong. I didn't attempt to impose standards/limitations/generalizations upon you. The written record reflects that you attempted to do that with me.
Let me guess, is your response "who, what, when, where" ?
Its all yours, you can even erase this !
I don't believe i saw Mark C say you couldn't ask your question, or that people couldn't answer. He merely asked why it mattered to you which of three plates people liked. I have to agree with Mark that that question is of little relevance to your decision, as you will go with whichever of the three plates you like the best. Not whichever gets the most votes. Atleast, i would hope you would go with the plate that worked best for you.
As well, i would think, the responses to your question would not influence you to buy the ligature anyway. The responses to the overall opinion of the ligature itself would. But only after trying it for yourself.
But again, you have every right to ask what clarinet/music related questions you want to. And Mark C. wasn't saying you couldn't ask your question about the plates. He was simply asking what importance it was.
I think the both of you need to cool down and this last portion of the thread should be erased and forgotten.
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