 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bigno16
Date: 2004-04-27 01:49
I have THE MOST AWFUL TONGUING PROBLEMS--I swear to it. Tonguing is my big problem that keeps me from progressing, I feel. I cannot tell what part of my tongue (or if it's the tip) I'm using to flick the reed with. And also, I cannot figure out if I'm touching the tip of the reed or not. My teacher has told me to sit down and figure these things out...and I sit there, sometimes for hours it seems, trying slowly to solve my problem or at least diagnose it further--yet I fail. What's worse is that I can't seem to use the same part of my tongue or reed every time I articulate--it's always different. How could I figure out what part is touching what more efficiently? Also, I think that I am moving TOO MUCH of my tongue and not the tip when articulating and that's causing it to be sloppy and slow. I am only supposed to move the very tip, correct? I find these things so hard to do. Another hinderance I have is that I can't seem to keep my lips still when articulating and I lose my firm grip or purchase of the mouthpiece very easily EVERY TIME I tongue. That's got to be one of the most bothersome things. So instead of at least some tonguing, you hear more air than the tones. I think I need to find some exercises to do every single day to improve my tonguing, especially because I always have quickly tongued passages in all my music. I DID follow the rules and searched on the BBoard and everything. Trust me, I've looked everywhere for help on tonguing and tried to follow so much advice but I just cannot seem to do it. Does anyone know of anything I could possibly do to fix my issues here that I have addressed? Anything at all would be greatly appreciated, please. I really want to get better tonguing as quickly as possible and hopefully then be somewhat satisfied and able to enjoy playing more. It really does keep me from enjoying myself...
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Author: msroboto
Date: 2004-04-27 02:14
If your teacher can't tell you what you are doing wrong OR can't explain in a way you can understand what you need to do to tongue properly.
Then maybe it's time for a new teacher.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-04-27 02:17
Step 1: Say "Tee".
Step 2: Play a low C.
Step 3: Say "Tee" again.
Repeat about 3 billion (or so) times...
The reasons for:
Step 1: This sets your tongue up to move only the tip, and for a small part of the tip to touch the reed.
Step 2: To practice step 1 while blowing into the clarinet.
Step 3: To notice whether your tongue changes between blowing on the clarinet and pronouncing "tee." This should help you figure out if you're playing the note according to this new habit.
Breaking bad habits is VERY difficult, so be patient! Be kind to yourself...no beating up allowed in this process!!!
Katrina
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Author: kenbear
Date: 2004-04-27 04:18
Yes, perhaps it's time to get instruction from someone else...
I remember having trouble with articulation until a new teacher explained that my tongueing problem was actually a blowing problem...that was the first lesson.
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2004-04-27 04:56
This is mostly what I posted yesterday to someone else, but I have included another exercise for you to try.
It's good that you are trying to analyse your playing and diagnose your problems. I think, however, that you are trying to address too many problems at once. Before you worry about anything the tongue does, worry about your embouchure and your air flow. Before you try to play any articulated passage play it through legato focussing on keeping your embouchure constant and your airflow steady.
This is pretty much what I wrote yesterday and it is just as applicable to you as it was to the last person:
If you can't tongue a slow passage, you can't tongue a fast passage.
Play a low Bb, starting the note with a breath attack. Let the tip of tongue touch the tip of the reed, but keep on blowing through the silence. Remove the tongue from the reed to make the note sound again.
The important things to remember are:
1. You must always keep the air flow constant. In terms of airflow, almost every musical phrase is the equivalent of a long note.
2. To keep this airflow constant you must maintain your embouchure for the duration of the passage.
3. The note sounds on the RELEASE of the tongue, not the (small) impact of the tongue on the reed. When practicing tonguing, focus on the release of the tongue - the articulated note should have the same sound quality as a legato note.
After this you can try the following exercise on open G with a metronome (at crotchet equals 60-80):
1. Play a G for 8 beats
2. Play a G with the smallest amount of tongue you can you use resting on a point somewhere near the tip of the reed. The note should not sound but you should keep blowing the entire time. This will give your body some idea of where the tongue should be.
3. Play a G for two beats then place your tongue lightly on the reed for two beats, take it off for two beats, and then on for another two. Notice again that the sound comes on the release of the tongue, not the attack. This third step is exactly the same as the first except with the introduction of the tongue.
If you can find "The Cambridge Companion to Clarinet", Anthony Pay has some excellent ideas in regards to tonguing. I believe he has also paraphrased them on the Klarinet Mailing List, and should come up if you do a search on tonguing there. I also was given some excellent ideas by Cynthia Nichols from the University of Nebraska - Omaha and would be happy to email them to you (click on my nickname for my email address)
I have spent 8 years of my 9 year playing life tonguing incorrectly and it really has only started to work for me in the last couple of months. The most important thing is to be PATIENT, and to do SIMPLE tonguing exercises. If the exercise is too complex then you will resort to bad habits in order to achieve the desired result, and then you are back at square one. Aim for small improvements in the short term and you will get somewhere in the long term.
I hope this helps
Alex
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Author: Wes
Date: 2004-04-27 07:34
Hi!
Air pressure is needed for the clarinet to work properly.
Play some long tones for 10 seconds or more on low C first. Then, play one and stop the tone with the tongue while still blowing. Remove the tongue from the reed, play the note, and return the tongue to the reed, stopping the note, blowing all the time. It's like saying teet, teet, teet, etc. Next try it by blowing continuously and saying dee, dee, dee, etc. Continue on at increased speed. The message is to provide high air pressure while tonguing to keep the notes coming. This is over simplified, of course. Later, you can learn to stop the notes with less tongue noise and more musicality. Good luck!!
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Author: Avie
Date: 2004-04-27 12:37
Sometimes we over emphasize what the tongue is doing when what works for one doesnt always work for others. You can try just simply listening and concentrating on producing the short sound of stacatto instead of worrying about the position of the tongue which is basically what we do with legato or any other articulation. The stacatto sound is the finale result that we are trying to produce and not necessarilly the position of the tongue. Its worth a try. Im still working on it.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-04-27 14:30
Yes, get a second opinion (a different teacher). Some things in life cannot be explained........they must be discovered.
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Author: William
Date: 2004-04-27 14:57
You say, "So instead of at least some tonguing, you hear more air than the tones". Which leads me to suspect that perhaps your reed is too hard for your mouthpiece. Try a softer one to see if that makes a difference in your sound and articulation. All of the above advice is good, but sometimes "over analysis is paralysis" and one worries so much about being so "correct" that no productive "action" is ever really taken. Remember, there is no one true method for perfect tonguing--what is important is the result of our own efforts. Try a softer reed, use plenty of breath support with a "tu" enunciation, practice it "a billion times, or so" and good luck.
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Author: coasten1
Date: 2004-04-27 17:10
Just some suggestions that help me:
1. Make sure you have a pretty easy reed. Free blowing, not too soft. Changing anything you do on a clarinet will take time. Have patience.
2. Relax. Most important. Relax. Can I say it again? Relax. You should only use enough tension to hold the clarinet in place with your embouchure. The tongue should be in place higher in your mouth but the tip should be relaxed. This is hard to describe but the tip area of the tongue should be almost like a dangling wet noodle.
3. Pretend as if the clarinet is in your mouth and blow a stream of air. Relax. Loosely dent the air with a wet noodle tongue. You should feel the air push the tongue back. If you do it correctly, you should be able to get a very fast 'tonguing motion'. This is kind of what the 'flick' against the reed should be like. Relax. Of course, there is not as much air resistance doing this than actually playing the clarinet. It is more to get an idea of how to start working with the clarinet.
4. Remember the 'tip' of your tounge is not necessarly the 'tip' of your tongue. It is relative to the shape of your mouth. Relax. You should be touching under the tip of the reed with near the tip of your tongue and the actual tip of your tongue should not really be touching your teeth or gums. Remember the wet noodle flicking in the air stream.
5. Again, relax. When you relax, the air does most of the work. Don't think of the tongue as having to do the work.
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Author: joeyscl
Date: 2007-02-08 06:21
Maybe you wouldn't need to figure those things out if You just relearn the WHOLE Tonguing business since you are probably not doing it correctly anyway. (I had 2 relearn tonguing TWICE. Didn't relearn it properly the first time, only fixed it after another 2~3 years olf playing.) It doesn't take as long as you think. On both occasions, when i really put my mind into it (that is, actively keeping in mind how you're suppose to be tonguing and doing it while you play your regular music stuff), it only me about a week or 2... and trust me, im not a particularly talented musician
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-02-08 16:04
I want to re-emphasize the point made above about how difficult it is to break a bad playing habit. As an example, I've been working on NOT half-holing (left forefinger opening) into the altissimo for over a year now. I do it correctly most of the time, but the fear of not having the alti note speak leaves me with awkward attacks, alti-notes that stick out, and the temptation to aide a slur into the alti with my tongue.
Think of your tonguing update as a project, possibly long term. Seriously consider starting over using some of the ideas above; and find a new teacher.
You'll enjoy the accomplishment.
Bob Phillips
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Author: sherman
Date: 2007-02-08 16:27
Bigno16:
I posted an article on tonguing today(in the other articles mostly on speed of tonguing on this site) which you may find pertinent, and perhaps helpful. It gives specifics and stresses very slow study. I hope that it may help.
sherman friedland
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2007-02-10 07:21
although this looks like quite an old thread, I have noticed that tonguing becomes less of a problem to learn when other things work correctly
the more you can get right with breathing and embouchure the easier it seems to tongue
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