 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2004-04-21 15:18
I was listening to the Marcellus recording of K622 in the car last night and heard something I thought was odd.
In the Adagio, near the end when he does the septuplet arpeggios starting on low F (F-A-C F-A-C-C), as he's holding out the C5 I'm hearing what sounds like a gentle piano trill in the background. I don't hear it in the other recording I have, so I'm guessing it's unique to this.
Is there a piano part in the orchestral score? Is it some kind of recording anomaly? Or is my CD just whacked (I have the Sony Essential Classics disc)? I admit I haven't yet pulled out my Great Performances vinyl copy of the recording to see if it's on there as well.
Anybody else hear it?ยต
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
Post Edited (2004-04-21 18:09)
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Author: Kevin
Date: 2004-04-21 21:33
I hear what you're talking about, but only when played on a decent stereo at a sufficent volume. There is no piano part in the concerto; which was scored for solo clarinet, 2 flutes, 2 bassoons, 2 horns, and strings. What is on the recording is probably an engineering glitch or it's just some 'illusion' produced by the high instrumental texture.
BTW, speaking of engineering glitches, does anybody hear at 3:06 to 3:08 of the Rondo (track 9) a loud and clear noise that sounds like trill in the cellos?
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2004-04-22 06:22
It's not sure whether Mozart would have wanted to use a keyboard instrument as continuo in the Concerto. Although the practice had largely faded out by 1791, in some places it may well have still been done. On Antony Pay's recording with the Academy of Ancient Music one can hear a fortepiano playing continuo and adding an interesting feel to the texture.
But it is highly unlikely that they would have used a piano on the Marcellus recording!
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2004-04-22 13:03
Kevin,
Good to know you heard it too and I'm not nuts.
I haven't heard anything odd at that spot in the Rondo, but I've only played it in my car. I'll make time tonight to load it up in the home stereo and strap on the headphones.
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-04-22 14:07
This recording has some strange noises in other places too...maybe it was the cleaning people.
David Dow
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-04-22 16:02
I've listened to this recording many times and have always noticed the unusual sound at 3:06 to 3:08 of the Rondo.
My best detective guess is that it is someone humming along with the melody in the orchestra.
Maybe Szell was doing his Toscanini impression? ...GBK
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Author: Anders
Date: 2004-04-22 19:42
Perhaps related: I heard (from a local repairman who knew him) that Gigliotti was required to make his recording of the Mozart in pieces during leftover session time, different seasons of the year, etc. If Marcellus's recording was done under similar circumstances one can easily imagine the cleaning folk running the vacuum cleaner in the background...
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-04-22 21:48
Gigliotti wrote that there was a half-hour left over at the end of a session, and they recorded it in a single, uninterrupted take. I think that's more likely than that they did it in multiple, fragmented sessions, particularly since it comes from the man himself.
Marcellus performed K. 622 on a subscription concert in about 1963 that was repeated several times. I was at one of them. I'm sure they had a standard recording session before or afterward.
Ormandy was willing to take those kinds of chances. Isaac Stern wrote that when David Oistrakh made his first visit to the U.S., Stern and Ormandy had intended to record the two Bach solo concertos and the double concerto. However, Oistrakh had promised to do the double with his son, so they rummaged around in the Philadelphia Orchestra library and found a Vivaldi double concerto, which they sight-read. (Stern's part was in alto clef.)
On the other hand, Szell and Marcellus were, I think, far to meticulous (or anal, if you like), to dash something off, particularly where they had worked up a highly polished series of concerts. I'm sure there were long takes, but not just a single one.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Anders
Date: 2004-04-23 21:06
Thanks Ken,
Proving once again the horse's mouth is always better than hearsay...
I wonder, in the case of Gigliotti, whether there was any planning at all (i.e., guys, let's do the Mozart wind concertos this season -- Kincaid, de Lancie, Garfield -- if we have any session time) or if it was totally impromptu...
Cheers,
Anders
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Author: Tom J.
Date: 2004-04-23 21:36
Ken writes :
"On the other hand, Szell and Marcellus were, I think, far to meticulous (or anal, if you like), to dash something off, particularly where they had worked up a highly polished series of concerts. I'm sure there were long takes, but not just a single one."
From someone who knows:
In fact the first movement was done in one take. The second and third movements in two takes each.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-04-23 21:36
Anders... Gigliotti wrote that when he played under Ormandy, all the Philadelphia Orchestra recording would take place on Sundays (their only guaranteed free day). Sometimes they would go for a few months without getting a day off, due to all the recording they did. Sessions could be as long as 10 hours.
In the Clarinet magazine, he related the story about the Zampa Overture, which Ormandy would always say "If we have time left over in a recording some day, we're gonna record it". This went on for years (and became a bit of a standing joke) until one day Ormandy, with 25 minutes left in a recording session, decided finally to record it. Gigliotti said that the orchestra had never played it before, but recorded it perfectly in one take....GBK
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-04-26 16:19
The Philadelphia Orchestra really was that good in the 1960s. In 1962, I was in the Interlochen University/Staff Orchestra (mostly college players plus those who, like me, were working there during the summer). The conductor was Henry Smith, the Philadelphia principal trombonist. At one point when the group wasn't watching him carefully, he told an Ormandy story:
They were on tour with a contemporary piece that constantly changed meter. They came to a 3/4 bar, but Ormandy mistakenly conducted it as 4/4. When they saw his baton go horizontally on the third beat, the entire orchestra repeated the fourth beat and went on as if nothing had happened. Ormandy was startled and looked at the concertmaster Jacob Krachmalnick, miming the word "Me?" Krachmalnick nodded "Yes" with his violin.
That's the level of concentration the great orchestras require.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-04-26 17:42
Go figure, and I always loved the Philly records..yet I could never play on a Gigliotti piece in tune...I always heard that Gigliotti used his Chedeville in the orchestra right up to the end.
David Dow
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