 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-04-21 15:14
A while ago I purchased this basket case LeBlanc (serial 8XXX), it looked awful and one of the bearing posts was ripped loose but the keys and rings were tight and the bore smooth. It cleaned up real nice and now has a new set of pads. As part of the process I soaked it in almond oil for a couple of days, steel wooled the bore and all the tone holes as it had not been played for many years.
The instrument plays great BUT has absolute as well as relative tuning problems. Middle Bb, A, G# and to some extent G are sharp, the step between B and Bb is the worse. Further the instrument is over all sharp. It came with a 62.7 mm barrel. When I tried it with my Dynamique's 65.7 mm barrel things got better. Then I put on a magic barrel (unmarked and 66.5 mm from a 1922 Buffet A) and low and behold absolute pitch was fine and only Bb was still a bit sharp. Best of all the instrument still blows well.
The bore of this clarinet measures ~14.78 mm. Does anyone have any ideas why this instrument should play so poorly with what appears to be its original barrel? Could it be that this instrument just does not like the Clarion HS* mouthpieces that I use? This instrument is a very nice playing horn and I would like to keep it if the tuning problems could be sorted out.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-04-21 15:35
There are numerous repair techs out there who may be able to address some of the problems you are having...one thing for certain don't expect any old clarinet to play perfectly in tune..as to the HS star mouthpiece I suspect it too plays pretty sharp...the barrell itself could be out of whack and there may be problems with tone holes either being shrunk or affecting the pitch...again consult a professional repair tech who has the resources and the knowledge to access the problem.
David Dow
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-04-21 15:43
Hi Bill,
I have Dynamic 2 that needs a 68mm Scott barrel to really play well in tune. That's a pretty long barrel but... I normally use about a 1 mm longer barrel on my Buffet and Selmer than folks with the same setup. My Portnoy BP02 MP might be the culprit but I guess one just has to do what it takes. I believe that your original barrel was way too short to begin with and might not have been the original one.
The high pitched Bb might be caused by a register or the A or G# key that is opening too far. Play around with Post-it shims and see if you can bring the Bb down a little.
HRL
PS I have Moennig and Chadash barrels for all occasions and setups plus a really great generic 66mm that John Butler bored to Moennig specs that is really good. I amconstantly playing around with MP and barrel combinations; it is a lot of fun.
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Author: Douglas
Date: 2004-04-21 15:57
And you used steel wool on the bore?....could you describe that more?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-04-21 16:04
Bill, From the low serial # [for LeBlanc's pro cls], I'd guess it to be very early in this line of good cls, Dee and others will know more than I about them. I have several similar models from that time period, all of which have barrels measuring 64 to 67 mm in length. Perhaps yours was shortened [too much?] . The short barrel, have you tried tuning it to 440-2?, might cause the sharpness of throat tones in itself and any enlargement of the A and G# tone holes, or too great pad rise, might also. D D says it well [as usual], look for some skilled help. Also, the HS mps were designed for Selmers big-bore cls!, mine work best on the 15.0 LeB's. I presume your Clarion {if glass?} was made by O'Brien , therefore "large bore". Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-04-21 16:11
Douglas, I've steel wooled all my old antiques, inside and out. First, use the finest wool one can buy. I form a ball/plug, dump lots of almond oil on it and gently push it down the bore with a wooden dowel. I do this after the clarinet has been soaking in oil for a couple of days. It's remarkable what comes out of 100 year old clarinets. I do the tone holes too, minus the dowel part.
Don B. my Clarions are crystal
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
Post Edited (2004-04-21 16:14)
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-04-21 16:13
I have 2 Dynamiques - both Barrels measure (approx) 66mm. You could also have other issues with pad & cup heights, changes in dimensions, mouthpiece probelms, etc. It's always a good idea, as David Dow siggested to seek the help of a professional - send them the mouthpiece too. [ Leblanc has OEM stock that goes back a "far piece", surprising as other manufacturers (purposely, IMO) sell their OLD OEM stock - which saves them the hassle of tracking, counting & fiddling with it. ] mw
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-04-21 17:10
I guess I'll add a few more notes to this discussion.
First, I let my teacher, a very good professional, blow this horn, he said it was likely blown out. I gave him the Dynamique's barrel and he said that was better. I haven't had a lesson since I figured out that the magic barrel worked so well.
I have tinkered with the vent clearances on the A, G# and octive keys using the orginal barrel. By the time Bb is in tune with B it's so stuffy you don't want to play it. With normal clearances this clarinet has wonderful clarity of G, G#, A and Bb, abiet out of tune.
Now that I have found an acceptable barrel I'll go back and work on vent clearances. I also want to try the orginal LeBlanc mouthpiece with the orginal barrel and see what happens.
Being retired and living on a pension I have a love hate relationship with repair professionals. I use them to pin cracks, tighten bands and straighten grossly bent keys. When they tell me a $200 antique, which might likely play like crap, needs a $1000 overhaul I go biserk. This is the 4th clarinet I have restored since I started playing again 6 months ago and the ONLY one that has these kinds of tuning problems.
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2004-04-21 18:05
Bill --
I'm with Don Berger on this one.
Your (Selmer) Clarion HS* crystal mpce is almost certainly an O'Brien.
I'll bet that your "original" Leblanc barrel has actually been shortened.
Many of these old clarinets belonged to people who played on soft reeds with undeveloped embouchures, which caused their pitch to be hopelessly flat with a normal barrel. The same problem still exists today for many sax players who double on clarinet.
A common "quick and dirty" fix for this pitch problem was to have the barrel shortened. If you are at all familiar with lathe work you can often spot a shortened barrel by the less than perfect lines where the wood meets the rings, or by marks left from improper setup of the barrel in the lathe.
Short barrels of 65mm or 64mm were also available from the factories. You might contact Leblanc in Kenosha, Wis. and ask if they ever offered barrels this short (62-63mm).
Since the clarinet seems to play in tune with a longer barrel, why not just go with that setup and forget about the original barrel?
If you are determined to use the Leblanc barrel, the only approach I can suggest to try would be to pull the barrel out several mms and use tuning rings to take up the gaps.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-04-21 19:13
Try sending your barrell to Walter Grabner.
Or even better, have him custom make a barrell that will assist with the pitch on this instrument!
David Dow
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Author: susieray
Date: 2004-04-21 19:49
I also have a late 1950's Leblanc and the barrel is short, 62-63mm....I have to pull it out a couple of mm's, but it does play well in tune with itself
that way.
I would also recommend Walter's barrels, by the way. I have one
of his cocobolo barrels on my old 1911 Buffet in A (which he also
overhauled) and it does wonders for it, especially the throat notes which were way flat with the original barrel.
He does prefer to have you send the entire instrument if you want a custom barrel.
sue
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