 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ben
Date: 2004-04-19 15:01
Although I have been playing the clarinet about 12 years and feel that I have reached a high level of playing, I am still new to the bass clarinet. I have some questions which I hope people who have been playing/teaching bass clarinet for a while will be able to answer.
1: Sometimes I will be playing the bass, and get a squeek/chirp for no aparent reason. This usually happens in the lowest register, and is most frequent when I am trying to articulate after a rest. What are some possible causes to this?
2: Is there any reason why swabing neck should be routine? Usually it seems that I can invert the neck after playing and quite a lot of liquid will pour out.
3: If one is sitting to play, are there any benifits to using a neck srap?
4: I noticed that for Tangelwood auditions one is required to play either the Mozart clarinet or bassoon concertos on bass clarinet. How common is it to play these (other other concertos) for a professional orchestral audiion on a bass clarinet? What is a good arangement and publisher for the bassoon concerto aranged for clarinet?
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2004-04-19 15:18
3) I use both a peg and neckstrap. It frees my hands from having to balance the instrument. It also allows me to more easily tilt the instrument so that the mouthpiece is at an angle close to that of a soprano clarinet's. I have noticed that the bass clarinetist of the Indianapolis Symphony also uses both. (I'm a longtime dedicated amateur.)
2) I have to admit that I don't swab the neck regularly. The liquid is primarily condensation (pure water), so I don't think that it is particularly harmful if the neck isn't completely dried.
1) I should probably leave this answer to those with teaching experience, but I don't think that a bass clarinet should be any more prone to squeaks than a soprano. If I squeak, it is usually because I accidentally hit a key I didn't intend to or I overblew the note. It could also be due to a leak. Assuming that latter to be the cause, you might get a friend to, one by one, press down on the pads that are supposed to be closed as you play the note that squeaks. This may help isolate where there is a leak, if there is one. Also be aware that you don't need as tight of an embouchure with a bass clarinet and that you need to take more of the mouthpiece into your mouth.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-04-19 15:49
The squeak/chirp can be caused by several things. In rough order of frequency:
1) A corner of the reed may be weak. Many reeds are paper-thin at the corner and whistle or chirp when you start playing. Try a new reed.
2) You may have the reed set too low. For the reed to wrap along the vamp, the tip has to be about 1/2 mm. higher than the tip when you put it on. A leak will most often be at one of the corners.
3) The reed may have warped down the middle. Put it on 400 grit sandpaper, press hard, but only on the bark, and sand it to a mirror finish. Then press more gently at the top of the vamp, and only a tiny bit lower down, and smooth things off.
4) The corner of the mouthpiece may be dinged. It's easy to do by bumping it into a stand. Take the mouthpiece off, clean it thoroughly and hold it so light reflects off the rails and tip. If you see a non-shiny spot at one of the corners, that's the problem. You ought to have your own mouthpiece, anyway.
5) The mouthpiece may be otherwise damaged.
6) There may be a leak in the instrument, particularly along the mouthpiece tenon, at the tuning slide (if any) in neck, the tenon between neck and the body, or the soldered seams in the neck.
You can avoid squeaks by switching to the bassoonist's "Andy Gump" embouchure, where you do everything you were taught not to do. Bunch up your chin and drop your jaw down and back. Once you get the sound going, change back to the standard embouchure.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: William
Date: 2004-04-19 15:59
You should be able to play anything on the bass clarinet that you can play on your soprano--that is, with lots of practice. Play your Baermann Bk III and then tackle the Mozart, Webers, etc.
I always swab the neck just to keep it from smelling bad. My playing might stink, but not my instrument.
Squeaks in the low register--F3, for example--are usually caused (for me) by not having sufficient breath support available before attempting to enunciate the sound. If support is given before articulation, these notes usually do not chirp.
I play a low C bass clarinet with a Bay style neck, do not use a neckstrap and experiance no balancing instability. But if one helps you, go for it and don't worry what others think. I have, however, begun to consider the use of a neckstrap with my soprano clarinets as getting older is causing my right thumb to lose some of its youthful endurance.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-04-19 16:07
Don P says it very well. I also use peg [for BC height and mp angle] AND neck strap [not tight, but for security {I like glass mps!} while resting/changing music pages]. IMHO, the BC [and Alto cl] is more prone to squeek, because of very-small leaks [U J] and/or fingering errors, than sop cls. I check many notes and "run the break" and make occasional minor adjustments. After playing, I swab-dry the neck as well as U J/L J and dry mp with soft hanky, lip dry the reed [uncapped] and leave the case open overnite, to avoid "odors". Re: auditions, not having these problems, I hope our "real BC pros" will advise you. I should think that at least some of the Mozart would be highly difficult on BC, just due to size. I am not that familiar w: the bassoon conc., but its transposition to BC and its plateau fingering diffs might cause additional problems. My thots, Much luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: javier garcia m
Date: 2004-04-19 16:38
I use both neckstrap and peg. Although you can play (siting) only with the peg, the neckstrap hold the tension between your hands and the instrument, specially for playing F4/C6, when your hands push out the horn.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-04-19 16:50
Ben, the one thing you leave out of your post is what model bass clarinet you have, whether or not it's actually yours, and what state of repair it's in.
If you are going to play clarinet or bassoon concertos, you don't want to be doing it on a plastic model with a single register vent. If you have some squeaks, this might be a cause.
Also, be mindful of the 'Andy Gump' advice. I sometimes get a chirp when I'm blowing too heard with too firm an embouchure. I usually get back on track using what Ken describes.
Given a good instrument, I would be more inclined to do the clarinet concerto. At least you know it'll have clarinet-type cliches. I haven't heard the bassoon concerto, but I know from playing bassoon parts in quintets that they are subject to both high and low range extremes. A bassoon can go as low as a low-C bass clarinet. Some bassoon chamber music has taken me up to my altissimo C# on bass cl.
Allen Cole
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2004-04-19 21:19
I did the Mozart Bassoon Concerto back in my senior year of high school in Saint Louis in the mid 1960's, playing it on a standard (and well adjusted) Bundy bass clarinet without significant difficulties. The cadenza written into the part went up and down through altissimo high Bb, and learning to manage that part worked wonders for my high register playing skills. Other than the cadenza, it was note for note the same as the Mozart original.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-04-19 21:41
Terry -
My favorite recording of the Mozart Bassoon Concerto is by the French "basson" player Maurice Allard, who, IMHO, is the best player ever. John Miller of the Minnesota Orchestra also has made an excellent one. I also like a hilarious old recording by Archie Camden, who does a 3-minute "kitchen sink" cadenza in the finale, complete with quotes from the Overture to The Marriage of Figaro.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Brad
Date: 2004-04-19 21:55
I think you have received a lot of very good advice on the squeeking chirping thing. The only thing I would add is that whenever I am having a chirp fest it is usually because of the position of the mouthpiece. I usually find I am taking too little mouthpiece in my mouth, and that the mouthpiece is not angled down enough.
You should be able to navigate the Mozart Cl. Concerto fairly well on B Cl. You MUST have a well adjusted instrument. I would also recommend learning and using some of the "fake" fingerings (like open for a d 2 ledgers above the staff etc.) when playing in the altissimo register. For me, on B.Cl some of the fake fingerings are much easier technically, better in tune, and sound better, than the regular fingerings. I could certainly envision using quite a few in the Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
I use both peg and neckstrap. My right hand gets pretty sore after playing without the extra support of the neck strap. I think the strap helps my technique by supporting a lot of the weight of the instrument that my right hand would be supprting without it.
Good Luck!
Brad
Brad Cohen
Clarinetist
la_brad@yahoo.com
Post Edited (2004-04-19 21:56)
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2004-04-20 01:26
Hey Guys! Why did I get lucky and find this here and not on the Bass Clarinet Group page? Lot's of folk don't lurk on both and it is sure full of good information. Mark can you pass the whole thing along to them?
Bob A
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2004-04-20 02:26
Ben, I have not much to add but moral support. I've been playing bass for about 1 1/2 months now, and the chirps were the first thing I noticed. I believe the mouthpiece and clarinet are not to blame; it is me. I practice clean starts on low G and F and so on. There is something distinctly different about the attacks than on soprano. Someone said it here and I have read it in other threads here; have the pressure build up before removing the tongue, more so than on soprano. I have likened it to learning to drive stick shift- it seems a similar coordination of movements. I have also experimented with having my tongue lower on the reed, rather than on the tip, which is where I have it on soprano. I am getting better!! (And practicing Bass is helping my alto sax playing, too!!)
WT
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2004-04-20 03:29
I use Fibracell synthetic reeds on bass. They sound pretty good to my ears and seem to be immune from chirping and squeaking. The tone may not be quite as rich as a good cane reed but for me the trade-off is worth it.
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-04-20 05:50
just out of curiosity ... do contras chrip/squeak as often or worse than their higher bass clarinet cousins?
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Author: graham
Date: 2004-04-20 07:51
I only played contra for one concert, but I found that it did not squeak or chirp, and that I had to be less concerned about that than on a bass. But it was prone to its own brand of overblowing, producing a kind of whining howl if it didn't want to play the note you intended.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-04-20 15:32
diz -
Contras squeak and chirp less than bass. It helps that very few parts go even into the second register, let alone the third.
Bob -
I follow the Yahoo bass clarinet board but have found that almost everything worthwhile that gets said there appears here first, plus the interface is much better and faster here, and you don't have the annoying ads.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2004-04-20 18:13
Yeah Ken, Maybe. But I thought there were restrictions about "lifting" this whole thread and moving it over to the Bass Clarinet Group webpage. No???
Are you saying that each one of us need to duplicate our own messages over there?
Bob A
Post Edited (2004-04-20 20:16)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-04-20 22:19
Although Mark, of course, has the last word, I think it would be better to post a link. I've done that several times on the Yahoo BC board. That way you don't take even a chance of copyright problems, and you give the people on Yahoo a way to find out about this place, which I think is in a different league.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-04-21 00:55
Ken Shaw wrote:
> Although Mark, of course, has the last word, I think it would
> be better to post a link.
That's the advice I give everyone here' too - post a link to the interesting information off-site.
The web is a great place to explore, especially given a few starting addresses.
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