 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: rch427
Date: 2004-04-18 18:40
Attachment: horn.jpg (44k)
Can anyone help me identify this relative of the clarinet? The barrel is made out of a single piece of what looks to me like blackwood, with 7 finger holes and a thumb hole, the bell is chromed spun brass, and the mouthpiece is about 1/3 the size of a standard clarinet one. Yes, it's a single-reed. There's a thumb-rest, and the overall length is 18-1/2".
I can find no markings on it to indicate the manufacturer or even country of origin, but it was obviously professionally made. All joints are nicely corked. The Roman numerals "IX" is engraved on the metal fitting at the top of the barrel, and "17" is stamped into the wood on the underside of the barrel.
My first guess was that this is an Eastern European or even Middle-Eastern instrument, but I really don't know. If it's any help, jazz reedman Eddie Harris used to play it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
If you're having trouble seeing the picture, you can access it directly at http://hedonia.net/horn.jpg .
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Author: CPW
Date: 2004-04-18 19:11
oooohh, oooh Mr Cotter, I know:
It is a candlestick from a ...........Buffet table.
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-04-18 22:10
Probably WAY off the mark...but it says more basset horn relative than clarinet to me.
Hey...what else have you got lying around? Check out your attic for the urtext edition of the Mozart concerto and Stadler's original basset clarinet would you? hehehe
Danny.
Post Edited (2004-04-18 22:12)
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-04-18 22:22
Looks like someone had way to much time to spare and an interesting garden shed ...
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2004-04-18 22:36
Looks line one of those cheap Turkish "clarinets" found on eBay from time to time.
jbutler
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-04-18 23:24
To my knowledge, it is _not_ a "Turkish clarinet."
Turkish clarinets, even the ones on Ebay, are all metal, and have a simple system keywork. They're pitched in low G, so my guess is that the instrument under debate is much shorter.
As far as what it really is...I have no idea...
Katrina
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-04-18 23:31
The widely-flared bell is much like the [cheap] Chinese oboe given me by a friend, not really an isnt, it just squeeks! This horn, appearing to being of cylindrical bore, with a cl/sax mp, is to me an interesting [poorly playable ??] hybrid inst. A quick look in Sachs didn't help, HELP, please Al Rice etc ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: rch427
Date: 2004-04-18 23:49
Thanks for all the responses so far. A couple of things that might help:
The bore is most definitely conical, from less than 1/4" at the mouthpiece joint to about 5/8" at the bell joint.
Judging by the carrying bag, I'd guess it dates from the '60s.
It's a single-reed, with what looks to me exactly like a tiny clarinet mouthpiece and ligature--about 1-1/2" long by 1/2" in diameter. The ligature is either sterling or silver-plated, with an engraved Greek key motif.
With the Roman numerals "IX" engraved on the barrel, and the number 9 printed on its (otherwise unmarked) carrying bag, I'm guessing that one would've carried a few different versions of this, for playing in different keys or ranges.
As I mentioned, Eddie Harris played this, and I have a couple of pictures of him playing this instrument. If anyone is familiar with Harris' instruments, please give me a shout. I know he hybridized lots of things (e.g., trumpet mouthpiece on a saxophone), but this device is definitely stock.
Any further ideas would be appreciated.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-04-19 00:49
It looks like one of the hybrid instruments that Eddie Harris is famous for "inventing", such as the "saxobone" which was a trombone mouthpiece on a tenor sax, and also his combination of a single reed mouthpiece on the trumpet. Here is another photo of his hybrid "clarinet"
http://www.eddieharris.com/gallery/gallerypic20.html ...GBK
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Author: rch427
Date: 2004-04-19 01:43
Hey GBK--thanks for the link to Eddie Harris' site; for whatever reason, it didn't occur to me to look for it directly, and it didn't come up in my Google search.
I also just discovered that its original carrying bag has a US-made zipper, so I'm pretty confident that the instrument was--if not made in the US--at least imported here by a big enough company to bother making the bags for them.
The mystery continues...
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-04-19 14:30
If it's conical, it's essentially a wooden saxophone rather than a clarinet. Such instruments are made for use in Eastern European, and especially Hungarian, folk-music, under the Hungarian name tarogato.
The "normal" tarogato has keys, roughly like a simple-system clarinet. This looks like an attempt to make a keyless one. Something rather similar can be seen at http://www.sumerauer.de/early_patches/dokumentation/deutsch/tarogato.htm.
The caption to this picture reads:
Eigentlich ist dieses Instrument kein wirkliches Tarogato, sondern eher eine Art Saxophon. Es ist mit einem modifizierten Altsaxophonmundstück versehen und spielt in der Tonlage des Sopran.
Durch das Holzkorpus, den es mit dem Tarogato gemein hat, und die kleinen Grifflöcher erhält es seinen speziellen Klang.
which I would translate as:
Really this instrument isn't a true tarogato, but rather a sort of saxophone. It is equipped with a modified alto sax mouthpiece and plays in the tessitura of a soprano sax. The wooden body, which it has in common with a tarogato, and the small fingerholes give it its particular sound. [I think I've translated that last part accurately: please correct me if not!]
Added shortly afterwards: in fact there is an English version of this site at http://www.sumerauer.de/early_patches/dokumentation/english/tarogato.htm, which says:
This instrument is actually no real Tarogato, but rather some kind of Saxophon. It has a modified alto saxophon mouth piece.
Like the Tarogato it made of wood. This material and the small fingering holes give a very special timbre to the instrument.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
Post Edited (2004-04-19 14:36)
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2004-04-19 14:35
Quote:
which I would translate as:
Really this instrument isn't a true tarogato, but rather a sort of saxophone. It is equipped with a modified alto sax mouthpiece and plays in the tessitura of a soprano sax. The wooden body, which it has in common with a tarogato, and the small fingerholes give it its particular sound. [I think I've translated that last part accurately: please correct me if not!]
I couldn't translated it better than that
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-04-19 21:04
Tarogato this mystery instrument is NOT...All the tarogatos I've ever come into contact with have keys and are the same length as a Sop. Sax.
As far as zurnas go, they've got very small double reeds, and their body doesn't always have a metal bell.
The closest thing I've seen is a Shah-nai, from Persia/Northern India/etc.
The shah-nai has a metal bell, but the Shah-nai also has a double reed. It's not quite as loud as a zurna is, though...AFAIK, these are the real "snake charmer" horns.
I'd go with the "invented" instrument theory, but only the maker would probably know its "real" name then. It surely is not an exact fit for any of the ethnic instruments I know.
How long is the mystery instrument?
Katrina
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Author: rch427
Date: 2004-04-19 21:09
Katrina, the contraption is 18-1/2" long, overall.
Since, as was pointed out, Eddie Harris used to play this very instrument, I've written to the contact at his website. Perhaps someone there can shed light on the mystery.
Thanks!
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2004-04-20 03:50
If the metal tube coming out of the mouthpiece in the picture is part of the mouthpiece and resembles a small bocal corked like an oboe reed, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the instrument was originally a double-reed instrument. It's hard to tell from the picture, but the mouthpiece looks like it might be one of those single reed "mouthpieces" originally designed for use with an oboe as a substitute for the oboe reed. These have turned up from time to time on eBay -- a couple of them made by Chedeville. They were actually somewhat common back in the 50's or 60's so perhaps Eddie Harris picked one up and attached it to a shah-nai or something similar.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: peterninaus
Date: 2004-12-19 22:12
this instrument is a prototype. the IX indicates that there should be at least 8 other (not good) of this thing.
the idea of these instruments is very old.
just put a mouthpiece of an oboe or a clarinet on a recorder - its a kind of chalumeau.
sax also tried this - first only wood -then more metal - a big bell (not madeable of wood) made of metal - ... bass-clarinet - ...saxophone
please excuse my austrish engish
peter.ninaus@cdx.at
Post Edited (2004-12-19 22:13)
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