 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-04-17 10:20
Hi guys!
I´m currently playing on buffet e-11 with a vandoren b45dot. I think I sound quite good in the lower register. I like the dark sound which the b45dot produce. But the problem is the clarion register. I think the sound is a bit "shrilling" and "bright" in there. And the sound colour sort of changes there too.
I´m looking for a mouthpiece which can produce even tone in all the registers and which is dark, but yet clear in all the registers. I wonder if I´m not asking too much. If anyone got any advice about a mouthpiece which would be almost as described and would like to share the information in this topic, I would be really happy!
Thanks
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Author: William
Date: 2004-04-17 15:57
When it comes to matters of performance (tone quality, technique, etc) it isn't about the equipment--it is about the player. A specific piece of equipement will only make attaining your performance goals easier to attain--the bottom line is, you have to be able to play. I like my Chicago Kaspar #14, but I believe that I could sound the same (good or bad--??) on any mouthpiece. For evenenss of sound, work on balancing your reeds, controling your embouchure and maintaining steady breath control. There is no mouthpiece or clarinet on the current market that will "do it" for you.
(BTW, I could be all wrong. If anyone knows of a mouthpiece or clarinet that will make me sound like Larry Combs or Stanley Drucker, email me ASAP!!!)
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-04-17 16:57
Long ago and far away, Clarinetist, along about sixth grade I suppose, I decided there is no such thing as a Magic Mouthpiece....
Today, over half a century later, I can't add anything to William's points, which are very well articulated. I can, however, share a little bit of my own personal experience with you. I presently play on a Geo. Bundy #3 mouthpiece, #3 1/2 [standard] Rico reed. I picked the Bundy mouthpiece up somewhere a while back for a couple of bucks. I like, and still use, a Steel Ebonite that I've had for eons. Now, should something unforseen happen to either mouthpiece, there will be no insurmountable crisis on my part. I sound "about" the same on any mouthpiece (good, bad, indifferent - audience's choice), actually. These two mouthpieces, at present, are easy blowing, sound fine and... well, they work well for me. Beyond that, it's up to me to keep my embouchure in shape and breathe properly -- and try to play it okay. Sometimes I'm successful 
- r(cool)n b -
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2004-04-17 18:13
Following up on William's note - although mouthpieces make some difference, the first thing is to strengthen the embouchure. This is brought up in a couple of books about the clarinet, and the suggestion is made to try double-lipping for a short while each day. The result is that different muscles begin to be used. Also, the embouchure muscles are strengthened because you can't bite down while double-lipping and come to rely almost entirely on muscle strength to support the mouthpiece and reed. This makes a big difference to your tone.
Once the embouchure is strengthened, then experiment with mouthpieces and reeds and find what works for you.
Another thought about having a shrill sound in the upper notes - a possibility could be not having a strong enough flow of air moving through the instrument (closing off the throat, or not firm enough support from below). You should try these easy (?) and inexpensive methods first before shelling out for new equipment. At the very least your whole clarinet-playing experience will be improved by firming up diaphram support, using a faster air stream, and using a better embouchure.
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-04-17 21:28
Well, I guess I said something a little bit wrong. I didn´t meant that my sound was "shrilling" in the upper register. However I think it´s somewhat bright for my taste. My teacher hasn´t noticed anything bad in my sound in the upper register or at least he hasn´t point it out. But I think it´s too bright and that´s enough. Someone might like my sound in the upper register, but I don´t quite.
My teacher said sometime ago, that I should do something to develop my tone, meaning that I should probably get a new mouthpiece (I know a mouthpiece won´t produce a nice tone alone). So that´s why I´m asking advice for more resistant mouthpiece.
William,
I know that a good mouthpiece won´t make me play any better, but it may help me to produce a sound that I want. And How do you explain those descriptions about mouthpieces, if they don´t effect your sound? I do think that they´ll all sound a bit different, but this is just my opinion. Your´s may be different.
Thanks
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Author: Kevin
Date: 2004-04-18 00:08
To 'clarinetist', I too have a E11 with a B45 dot, and I'll have to say the clarion register is my strong point, although I feel my low notes are fine. In fact, I'm quite satisfied with my tone overall. It's definately better than some of the recitals by faculty members at local community music schools that I have heard, that's for sure. It's some of the other areas of my playing that I am more concerned with, such as intonation.
This just further supports the comments by William, Rob, and Brenda. There won't be that magic mouthpiece, you'll just have to work for it.
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Author: icecoke12
Date: 2004-04-18 05:30
Clarinetist wrote:
>I´m looking for a mouthpiece which can produce even tone in all the >registers and which is dark, but yet clear in all the registers.
There are certainly mouthpieces that are more even in response compared to others. To put it in another way, certain mouthpieces will help u reach that goal much easier that others...
I would think its possible to sound good on a B45 dot too, but you may just be able to find something that suits you better and make your playing much more enjoyable.
For a start, since you are on vandoren mouthpieces, you should try the whole series and see which model suits you better... I think the B40 is a good place to start.. followed by the M15 and M30... Pomaricos is another option, which are around the same price range as vandorens.
If you can afford it, then approach one of the custom mouthpiece makers and email them what you are looking for. They will be able to give far better advice and inform you whether one of their mouthpieces will be able to help you in your problem. I would email people like Walter Grabner, Richard Hawkins or Gregory Smith as they are very friendly people and they response quite fast to emails...
Finally, you can send off your B45 dot for refacing.. Most mouthpieces that come back normally play better after refacing.... some comes back as a disaster... but its a affordable option.. and some refacers offer unlimited adjustment till you get it right...
Anyway this is just my personal opinion. Not sure if its good advice, but its just some suggestions which I think that will help you...
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2004-04-18 06:04
Clarinetist --
Since you seem to like the Vandoren B45dot mpce you are currently playing, why not try some other mpces in the Vandoren line?
IMHO, the best all around mpce in the Vandoren line is the 5RVLyre. It will help you to control your clarion and altissimo registers, which can get rather wild with the B45 series unless you use a lot of embouchure pressure to stabilize your sound.
The 5RVL is about the same length of facing as your B45 but is not as open at the tip. The 5RV is a bit closer and a bit shorter than the 5RVL, but is otherwise very similar. You will probably need to use a little stronger reed than you are using with the B45.
The new M series Vandorens (M13, M14, M15 etc) are rather close and long by today's standards for French style mpces. You may find that you like the M series best of all, especially if you are after a darker sound than is typically produced on the traditional Vandoren mpces. While the M series Vandorens can be played on with medium reeds, they will not play optimally unless your reeds are strong enough. Stronger reeds will also help to stabilize your sound and aid you in producing a darker sound.
As far as developing your sound is concerned, (regardless of which mpce you choose to play), I cannot add anything to the excellent comments by the previous posters in this thread except to reiterate the following advice:
When the novice asked the old pro what mpce and reed he should use, the old pro replied:
"Long tones ... long tones ... long tones".
Good luck and let us know how you are doing.
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-04-18 08:55
Kevin,
It´s intresting to hear that you think sound better than the recital players, because I have thought of buying a recital maybe sometime in the future.
Someone would be glad about getting a sound that I have , and I think my sound is clear in all the registers and I like the sound that I get at the lower register. In fact my intonation is not bad either (I checked it with a tuner). But I´m looking for some different at this point. Perhaps I´m just asking myself more.
And adding more to that "Different mouthpieces can make you sound better" thing. I tried my teachers mouthpiece`s sometime ago. Peter Eaton had made one of them. At First I tried the others and they didn´t felt and sound so good. Then came the Eaton. When I played the Eaton´s mouthpiece my teacher told me that my sound had "changed richer". The mouthpiece felt and sound good for me too. I´m considering on buying one in the near future, but they are expensive.
icecoke12,
Thanks for your advice about the custom mouthpiece makers. I may mail them in the near future.
John,
Thanks for you too. I´ll definitely let you know how I´m doing.
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2004-04-18 15:38
Clarinetist- Kevin was talking about players in a faculty recital, not players who play on the Recital made by Selmer, since I think this is what you got from his statement.
Bradley
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-04-18 16:20
I'm interested by this discussion...especially those in the 'it's all about the player...not the equipment' camp.
I agree that a change in equipment can't instantly transform a player, and also that if there is a flaw in technique it will appear again with any equipment.
However, I would like to encourage experimentation, there could be something wrong in the manufacture of one particular mouthpiece for example.
Just becuase you try something doesn't mean you have to buy it!
Spend plenty of time with lots of equipment and preferably a second set of ear (at least!)
Personally, I play a mouthpiece by James Pyne, and have done for 5 years (if something ain't broke...don't fix it!), but if I had picked a different model, I do believe I would sound different.
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-04-18 18:05
Bradley,
Sorry I should read more closely. I´m not speaking english as my native language so maybe that explains that little mistake.
William,
You say you are playing on a Chigago Kaspar 14#. I do not doubt that you couldn´t play similar on any mouthpiece, but why do you play on that one that you play? Yeas, it feels right for you. I´m searching for a mouthpiece that works best for me. I´m not having huge technical difficulties (at least I hope I´m not having) on any part of my playing, so if the b45dot don´t feel so good for me, maybe you let me search for the one that does.
Thanks
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-04-18 20:51
I agree with william that each player will sound similar regardless of the equipment and that a good player will sound "good" no matter what they use. Also, as william states, the big thing about the different mouthpieces is how easy it is to achieve that sound.
For instance, I think I sound about the same on my Gigliotti P, on the Vadoren B45 that I used to have, on my sister's Fobes Debut, on my Greg Smith, and on the Walter Grabner that I've tried out.
In my opinion, a mouthpiece's job should just allow you much more control and ease while playing. With the right reed you can make anything play. But the real question is what plays easiest for you, and allows you the most depth and color while playing. So if the B45 isn't allowing you to play those altissimo notes easily, maybe it is time for a change.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-04-18 23:39
The M30 and B40 line are in my opinion the best of the Vandoren product line in terms of consistency and quality control....the B40 darkens the sound somewhat yet is very flexible in terms of tonal characterizing...
I would not hesisitate in adding there are numerous fine hand made makers who contribute on this board if price is no object.
David Dow
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Author: john gibson
Date: 2004-04-18 23:47
I'm more interested in these damned progressive bi-focals and getting a new prescription.....
BUT......I'm sticking with Pomarico crystals......and my wooden Buffet MPCs.
The crystals are the latest fronm Pomarico...(not on the market yet) and made specifically for Jazz. Very open and use soft reeds. Yet I also find my wooden Buffet which is close and uses strong reeds to play...a very good sound. I guess becasue I've been playing a while, I can use either....just takes different embouchure strength.....
Find one...and only one MPC at this point that suits all your needs....and stick with it.....no need to have a dozen "set ups". One will serve you well....as will ONE clarinet....rather than a whole bunch. You'll only get confused.....
JG....the clarinator
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Author: icecoke12
Date: 2004-04-19 05:04
john gibson wrote:
>The crystals are the latest fronm Pomarico...(not on the market yet) and >made specifically for Jazz.
Hi,
I believe the Pomarico Jazz series are already on the market
http://www.pomaricompieces.com/new.html
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-04-19 15:25
john gibson wrote:
>Yet I also find my wooden Buffet which is close and uses strong reeds to play...a very good sound.
My first mouthpiece was also a wooden Buffet and I remember it indeed worked well for me. However it broke down and I had to buy a new one. It indeed was a great mouthpiece. Do you know if they make wooden ones anymore?
Thanks
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-04-19 16:10
Wooden mouthpieces are not commonly available, these days.
Those nice old Buffet wooden mouthpieces were often made by the LeLandais company - no longer in production.
Finding something "off the shelf" and readily replaceable is safer.
If the Eaton mouthpiece plays well for you, it may be a good value...
... if you buy three or four 'inexpensive' mouthpieces and are dissatisfied...
This is the most intimate, and perhaps important piece of gear needed by a player. If you find a design that fits you comfortably and allows most of your reeds to play well out of the box - BUY IT!
*******
As to your language skills - they're superior to most regular posters...
who speak it as their mother tongue.
You have nothing to apologize for, that's certain! Go Suomi!
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Author: Duane
Date: 2004-04-20 01:59
It's very interesting that you should bring this up. I was playing an E 11 with a B45 mouthpiece also. I got the B45 because it improved my tone over the supplied mouthpiece. My teacher, Dan St Marseille, a well known jazz musician told me that my tone was my strong suit and I seem to have a good ear for a pure tone. I also noticed a slight, bright sound that I thought was a bit disconcerting at times. Then, along came the chance to acquire a restored Selmer Centered Tone, so I sold the E 11 and bought the Selmer. Voila!,,,,,an improved, deeper, purer tone, with the B 45 mouthpiece. Then, even though I was rather happy with the tone, when I heard a clarinetist like Eddie Daniels or Steve Wilkerson, I knew that I had to strive for a better tone. My hearing was getting more acute to the purity of sound. So, Dan suggested a Morgan RM 15. With this mouthpiece, the tone came out even better! I took in a bit more of the mouthpiece and I find that it sounds very nice, and I can get a great sound with LESS air being pushed thru, so I can hold the note longer with less effort. Morgan makes many styles and I discussed this same issue here about 6 weeks ago and got many very interesting responses. I do hope this helps you.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-04-20 14:00
Someone mentioned above wanted to play or sound like Stanley Drucker and I can honestly say that this is a laudible way to go...very few clarinetists in the world can play with such control and depth of feeling as Mr. Drucker.
On top of this his range of expression is so much greater than most that he makes the clarinet sound totally beautiful...he has so many great attributes in his style as to be too numerous to mention.
I have also preferred his playing over Marcellus who is a giant but played everything too evenly at times for me....but I am not in any way detracting from his valuable contribution to the clarinet schoool of though...
A fine record is the Berstein/Drucker combo in the Debussy Rhapsody...unbelievable.
David Dow
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2004-04-20 15:08
While certainly not as readily available as hard rubber, wooden mouthpieces are still made. Greg Smith, Pomarico and Hans Zinner are three manufacturers that come to mind. There are probably others.
Best regards,
jnk
Post Edited (2004-04-20 15:14)
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-04-20 17:44
As to the best mouthpiece, it is really what works the best for you...mouthpieces are a somewhat tricky realm and require a
good deal of patience in terms of searching for what gives the
finest results....
You should certainly give Walter Grabner a try...he produces
a wonderful warm sound with the pieces he makes....
David Dow
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-04-20 18:10
cowboyjonus writes:
"why would you want to sound like stanley druker?"
I am not sure who Stanley Druker is, but most of us would not be too bad off if we could sound like Stanley Drucker! ;-)
I can tell from hearing him in many settings over the years, Stanley has a great sound. At times, you may not care for what he does with it, his use of vibrato, or his musical approach, but those are different issues. He has great ring and projection that just about nobody today can match. You can always count on the fact that he will be interesting and do something with the phrases. He is a true giant and in a class all by himself. Of course, go listen to his recordings, they speak for themselves much better than I could express.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-04-20 18:28
Dear Ed...
Well it is quite nice to really see someone who appreciates the monumental acheivement that is the life of Stan Drucker...he is a real renassainance man in the classical world of music....there is very little one can add to his numerous attributes...he can change his tone on a dime! He has so many technical things mastered that others would struggle with for eons...
As to his sound I have always loved it...no matter how whacky or even wild he can be there is always that depth and warth of sound so few can ever emulate
David Dow
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-04-20 18:40
So how old is this Stanley Drucker? Have never heard a single note from him. Maybe I should buy one of his recordings.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-04-20 18:44
Stanley has been Prinicipal Clarinet of the NY Philharmonic for about 45 year or more...he is a wonderful player and has a great personality to boot...
I think it is important to appreciate the gifts of such great artists while they are alive...
David Dow
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-04-20 19:08
D Dow wrote:
> Stanley has been Prinicipal Clarinet of the NY Philharmonic for
> about 45 year or more...
56 years as a member of the NYP (and still going strong) ...GBK
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Author: kenbear
Date: 2004-04-21 02:38
Such a great artist...and I heard he's been playing the same mouthpiece for most of his tenure.
If that's true, what a great argument for finding something that works and then forgetting about the whole mouthpiece palaver.
(sorry Vandoren et al)
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-04-21 11:34
Alot can be said for sticking to the same piece...certainly beneficial for adapting reeds etc....
David Dow
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-04-21 12:28
kenbear said:
> Such a great artist...and I heard he's
> been playing the same mouthpiece for
> most of his tenure
It's true... GBK
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-04-21 13:09
Quote:
Such a great artist...and I heard he's been playing the same mouthpiece for most of his tenure. Although I'm sure he did do a little searching before finding the mouthpiece that he wanted to stick to! So find one that works well, THEN stick to it.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-04-21 13:35
Drucker is using a Chedeville Lelandais medium closed facing...
David Dow
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-04-21 14:44
kenbear wrote:
>I heard he's been playing the same mouthpiece for most of his tenure.
Maybe that is the most important reason why he is producing so beatiful sound.
D Dow wrote:
>Drucker is using a Chedeville Lelandais medium closed facing...
Are they making those anymore and if so, where? Not asking, because I would necessarily buy one. I´m Just curious.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-04-21 14:51
According to my info..Glotin is now manufactruing what THEY believe to be an accurate replication of these facings....
I also think Christopher Hill and Chadash are involved in replicating this design as well..
Greg Smith makes a Chedeville copy and
I believe Walter Grabner does as well....remember it may not be what you are looking for...as with anything try a few before buying.
David Dow
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-04-21 16:06
I got intrested about Greg Smith´s mouthpieces. Do you guys know where should I send my name, money, address and stuff when I would like to buy one of his mouthpieces? Can the payment stuff be done by e-mail?
Have someone tried his hardwood and/or his old kaspar mouthpieces? How did they they feel for you?
Thanks
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-04-21 16:43
Greg is a sponsor of this site. Under the mouthpiece section. And what you should do is email him and he'll be able to talk to you more indepth about what he has to offer and how to pay, etc. etc.
I also like his mouthpieces a great deal! I'm playing one right now as I type! (I practice in front of my computer so I can have something to turn to every 10 - 15 minutes or so for a quick break)
Also, I'm not POSITIVE, but I think Glotin uses the same blanks that Chadash-Hill use, just a different bore/facing.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Anders
Date: 2004-04-22 19:57
I'm pretty sure Mr. Drucker was appointed principal of the Buffalo Phil at the age of 16, then shortly thereafter moved to NY...
I recently overheard two local (Philly) clarinetists debating Morales's pedagogic qualifications (apparently, he attended Indiana rather than Curtis or Juilliard). My thought was, what does that matter when faced with such overwhelming accomplishment? I know that Drucker attended Curtis, but surely that does not account for his success. Such folk were born to be preeminent...and they are usually the hardest workers as well!
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-04-22 22:21
My personal opinion based on playing 3 E11 and 3 R13 horns plus others:
Although the E11 is a great instrument it may never give you the degree of satisfaction that an R13 will.....with any mouthpiece. The E11s I've played come with a shorter barrel than the R13....that may be part of it.
When the E11 no longer seems to satisfy you it may be time to move up.
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-04-23 13:30
BobD wrote:
>Although the E11 is a great instrument it may never give you the degree of satisfaction that an R13 will...
>When the E11 no longer seems to satisfy you it may be time to move up.
Yeah, I have recognized that and I will buy a professional model as soon as I can, although my E-11 has served me well during the years that I have played...
However, when I buy a new instrument it will probably be some other model than buffet, because in my opinion there are much better clarinets on the market than buffets what comes to the intonation etc. But I try as many brands and models as I can.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-04-23 16:38
I just had an old Hite refaced beautifully by Walter Grabner...as to getting one of his mouthpieces you should simply talk via e mail about what you like and how you want to play...
he can be reached at
http://www.clarinetxpress.com/
Everyone reacts differently to a certain facing...to me Walter is very down to earth and has alot of acumen concerning the way mouthpieces play...
my old Hite was very lively to the point of not trusting it...Walter brought it back to life!!! Concentrate on what you feel is the cheif thing you desire in the sound you make...
David Dow
Post Edited (2004-04-23 17:10)
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-04-23 19:58
Hi!
I have seriously considered about buying a "Kaspar style" mouthpiece from Walter Grabner. It looks like the "Kaspar style" mouthpiece is what I´m looking for and the price isn´t so high, either. I have talked with him via e-mail and it seems that I will give his "Kaspar style" mouthpiece a shot.
Could Someone who have ordered mouthpieces from him, tell me, how long, approximately, will it take my mouthpiece to arrive, if ordered from him? Have someone tried his "Kaspar style" mouthpiece? Does it feel good for you?
Thanks
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-04-26 14:22
I beg to differ with Luke. Some mouthpieces are SO bad I'd be surprised if even the likes of Stanley Drucker would be able to sound decent on them.
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Author: icecoke12
Date: 2004-04-26 15:57
I have this brand new K10M that came with a new Leblanc Concerto...
After passing it around, no one can seem to play it without this weird raspy sound that comes with every note ... and its horribly stuffy....and squeaks once in a while.... tried all sizes and brands of reeds, but still didn't work..
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-04-26 16:39
icecoke12:
I think it´s clear that you should get a new mouthpiece. If the K10M doesn´t feel good for you sell it or throw it away.
I´m getting a new one too, because I feel I don´t get so much out of me with my b45dot.
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Author: fredackerman
Date: 2004-04-27 18:30
Now that I play on a Greg Smith "Old Kaspar" there is no looking back! I'm happy, my instructors happy and my neighbors are happy...
Fred
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Author: William
Date: 2004-04-28 14:38
Sfalexi wrote, "In my opinion, a mouthpiece's job should just allow you much more control and ease while playing".
'nuff said--end of subject!!
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