 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: beejay
Date: 2004-04-10 00:14
I can understand tuning a clarinet to 440 or 442. But tuning a mouthpiece? How much difference to intonation does that make?
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2004-04-12 04:48
The "basic pitch level" of a mouthpiece depends on the length, diameter and shape of the chamber (the area below the windway that is effectively a continuation of the bore of the clarinet). A mouthpiece with a shorter and/or a narrower chamber will play sharper than one with a longer and/or wider chamber.
You cannot say with any precision that a mouthpiece will play at 400 or 442, unless the barrel length and shape is a known constant. For instance, a mouthpiece with a short/narrow chamber coupled with a short barrel (say 65 or 64 mm) might well be most comfortable playing at 444.
However, assuming a normal length barrel there is some validity to saying some mouthpieces tune better to 440 and others to a higher pitch, such as 442.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-04-12 14:31
A mouthpiece can make a moderate difference in pitch -- at least the 2 Hz difference between 440 and 442.
At a master class, I asked Anthony Gigliotti what he did when the string players urged the oboist to give a high pitch. He said that that didn't happen in Philadelphia, but that I might consider switching to his mouthpiece, which was available in an A 442 version. (In fact, all the Gigliotti mouthpieces I've seen are marked "442."
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-04-12 17:01
I think it odd to see mouthpieces marked "440" "442" etc.
Ok...you buy a 442 mouthpiece and of course...you instantly play every note at 442, and you're the best clarinet player in history.
I think not. For a start, you take your mouthpiece for Sabine Meyer to play on in Germany and she plays at 444 on it. Take it on tour to Japan, and you end up higher than 442 again!
It's all about consistency, or trying to chieve consistency. Different mouthpieces take differently on different instruments anyway...even from (as an example) one R13 to another.
As an aside...if anyone ever comes to the UK and plays 442 with a piano or string players (or me!)...what a shock you'll get!!
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Author: Bellflare
Date: 2004-04-12 18:45
I tried Vandoren 13 series vs. same model in more traditional and the 13s were lower pitched than their counterpart....same barrel used in this experiment.
The Gigliottis do indeed come in 440 and 442 models
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Author: beejay
Date: 2004-04-15 19:27
Many thanks for your kind responses. The reason I put the question was that I was considering buying a mouthpiece from the United States, and then it occurred to me that this might not be suitable for the (442) Buffet Crampon RC that I play here in France.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-04-15 20:39
B J , I make it a practice to measure the "made-up" length of individual mps [varying from 70 to 75 mm] as I do with barrels, and "stickering" them with their dimensions [and facing info] for future guidance re: pitch. I found this procedure quite useful with tuning an early [Conn] C cl [had 2 mps shortened], and recently with my Full Boehm Selmer-Paris R I [1932 vintage], since both were a bit flat [435?]. I often play along with FM, recorded classics, to get the feel of modern pitches. Be innovative [like the PBS ads!] . Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: donald
Date: 2004-04-15 21:04
RAMman makes an interesting point, but seems to, er, "miss the point". The designation of mouthpieces at different pitches is not to suggest that they will play at that pitch, but that they may play a little higher or lower given the average barrel etc it's just a rough indication, and can be quite useful to know.
for example- my Johnston mouthpiece plays a bit lower than my Viotto, my Brad Behn (Miller blank) plays quite high. The Johnston mouthpiece was useful over summer (no air conditioning in this country), the Miller was VERY USEFUL when playing in Germany.
to know/understand the tuning characteristics of these different 'pieces has in certain circumstances proven quite useful, but i use my Viotto at A440 most of the time (listening back to last nights recital, i'm not always in tune, but i'm not going to blame the mouthpiece!)
donald
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2004-04-16 06:46
In my orchestra we play at 442. A few years ago I bought a Greg Smith mouthpiece, and found that I couldn't play sharp enough on it without using shorter barrels. Mr Smith told me that I could cut 1 mm off the botom of the mouthpiece and that it shouldn't have much negative effect on the mouthpiece. Last week I took it to my tech and he did exactly that. It worked, and I'm now the happy player of a Greg Smith mp at 442!
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Author: jim S.
Date: 2004-04-18 04:05
I dont understand this. Humans can not discriminate intonation changes of less than 3 cycles per second in this hz range (see Backus, " The Acoustical Foundations of Music", p. 113.) What probably is happening is that the mouthpieces are varying the intonation by a great deal more than two cycles per second. I know that the manufacturers talk of such fine tuning, but I am not convinced that their control of intonation is quite so fine.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-04-18 04:09
jim S. wrote:
> I dont understand this. Humans can not discriminate intonation
> changes of less than 3 cycles per second in this hz range (see
> Backus, " The Acoustical Foundations of Music", p. 113.)
No, the ear can easily hear a beat frequency of much less than 2 cycles per second, which indicates to us that we are out of tune.
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2004-04-18 05:28
Liquorice wrote:
>"In my orchestra we play at 442. A few years ago I bought a Greg Smith >mouthpiece, and found that I couldn't play sharp enough on it without >using shorter barrels. Mr Smith told me that I could cut 1 mm off the >botom of the mouthpiece and that it shouldn't have much negative effect >on the mouthpiece. Last week I took it to my tech and he did exactly that. >It worked, and I'm now the happy player of a Greg Smith mp at 442!"
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That's because you've decreased the overall volume (of space) withing the mouthpiece. Shortening a mouthpiece by 1 - 1.5mms may also change the tuning ratios. But in the case of the blank I use and how high up on the "tube" of the clarinet it's being shortened, it doesn't effect the ratios.
I've shortened hundreds of my mthpcs for clients this way - anywhere from .25mms to 1.5mms - and the mouthpiece's tonal qualities as well as the tuning ratios have remained the same if not improved slightly for the individual player. It's so dependent on the pitch tendencies the player naturally possesses.
I always carry three different barrels in the case of both my Buffet R13 and Wurlitzer Oehler system clarinets. One for 440, 442, and 444. I play my own A=440 Chedeville style #1 facing in the orchestra...
440 for chamber music (most of the time, since my particular instrument and the way I play it is easier to play in tune with itself at this pitch), 442 for the CSO (that's our official pitch), and 444 for trips to Europe playing with European groups/players.
Interestingly, all Buffet clarinets are, strictly speaking, designed to play most accurately in tune with themselves at 441...a compromise in order to accomodate and give wiggle room for playing with both 440 and 442 pitch-centered ensembles in different parts of the world.
Gregory Smith
Post Edited (2004-04-18 05:28)
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Author: graham
Date: 2004-04-19 08:24
I am interested in the concept of "pitch tendencies a player naturally possesses". Apart from the obvious point that a tighter embouchure usually leads to higher pitch, is there any other cause for a player inherently to be sharp or flat?
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