 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-04-16 14:02
Maybe the problem was that they programmed a piece with large chorus? Had they instead run a program of standard instrumental pieces, perhaps they would have been OK.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-04-16 14:15
Perhaps they could save some money by having a few sinfonia concerts . . . .
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Bellflare
Date: 2004-04-16 14:29
Larry Guy was listed as the principal clar. of this organization.
Too bad they had to cancel. I enjoy his pedagogical stuff.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-04-16 15:17
I confess I don't understand these figures. Clearly, if a concert costs $150k it needs to sell more than 400 tickets.
But $150k to put on one concert? Where is this money going? How much do they pay the orchestra? Let's say 100 players at $200 each (just guessing). That's $20k. Hire of a hall at a High School? No idea, but I'll make a wild guess of $2k. Expenses for the chorus - 200 singers at $20 each. That's $4k. Total $26k.
Where are my calculations so far adrift? Are they using a professional chorus? Pavarotti as tenor soloist? Resurrecting von Karajan to conduct it?
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-04-16 15:52
David, while I have no idea how you butter your daily bread, clearly your talents are wasted. You could move to the US and achieve success in the field of Orchestra Management.
I am especially curious to observe your method of hiring a full chorus of people who can sing "Carmina Burana" without falling all over themselves for $20 a head.
Unfortunately, it would not be surprising if staging alone for such a production could cost $10,000 or more.
Several years ago, the Burbank (California) Symphony disbanded. The cause? a $50,000 one-time shortfall in annual funding. It wasn't just the relatively few bux needed to keep things going, though... income had been on the downslide, and there seemed to be no practical way to get it headed upward again. And in an area where there's the Glendale Symphony, the Pasadena Symphony, and of course the Los Angeles Philharmonic, it isn't as if people had nowhere else to go.
It wonders me that the orchestra in which GBK is Principal Clarinetist, the (Long Island) Sound Symphony, performs in generally the same area as the Long Island Philharmonic, yet it isn't announcing disastrous times. Maybe it's because the Sound Symphony doesn't do massive productions that are certain to lose money by the carload.
Regards,
John
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Author: graham
Date: 2004-04-16 16:52
That's a Bums on Seats programme if ever I saw one. 400 tickets? I can only imagine the target for such a production should be more than 2000 tickets. Even then I would expect it to be a thumping loss maker, but then grants and donations might bridge the gap. But, frankly, it is not worth playing a war horse like that to a tiny audience like 400.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-04-16 17:58
Everybody, please read the press release more carefully. The program was to be performed over two nights in two different venues. The first night ticket sales of 400 were inadequate to stage the program. Clearly they were aiming for more "bums on seats" or they wouldn't have sacked the concert.
$75K for a staging of Carmina Burana is not out of line when you factor in marketing and promotion, cost of the venue and supporting services, rehearsals and rehearsal space, conductor's fee/salary, and performance fees. The LIP doesn't give a lot of concerts across the year, so their fixed overhead gets spread over fewer events which also raises the burden.
Truth be told, when they lost their funding, they should have retooled the concert schedule to avoid the public embarassment. This will only undermine the perception of being a viable ongoing ensemble in their fundraising activities. Regrettably, in this business corporate and private givers tend to give to the more successful enterprises (everyone wants to be identified with a winner) while the weak struggle and die off for lack of funding. Hope LIP can pull out of the tailspin!
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-04-16 23:03
David,
I know things are bad over here in the UK with musicians being paid FAR less than our American colleagues...
Gone are the days when you could just hire a bunch of cathedral boy choristers for a few jelly babies and chocolates.
Ahhh, those were the days!
hehehe
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-04-17 00:00
Mark: The press release is quite clear. But as the production was described, I hardly think it could have been a money-maker no matter how they spread it out.
Daniel Lewis used to do the Young Conductors' Workshops with Leonard Bernstein at the Hollywood Bowl. A fine conductor, Lewis was Music Director of the Pasadena Symphony at one time. It was quite a good orchestra.
But when they invested a few tons of money on a massive production of Honneger's "Joan of Arc at the Stake," its reception was sub-marvelous. No question about it, the presentations were solid losers. Lewis left the Pasadena not long after that. Coincidence? Who knows.... Lewis later became Music Director of the Glendale Symphony and began introducing some more modern selections into their repertoire. He left the Glendale after a couple of years.
She: "George, let's go to the Philharmonic. They're doing Carmina Burana."
He: "You're joking, right?"
We may think warhorses are overdone, but they still sell tickets.
Regards,
John
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-04-17 12:09
John McAulay - you are an intelligent man, you don't need to resort to sarcasm. I make no claims to expertise in orchestral management. I know enough about elementary accounting to know that if a production costs $150,000, you had better sell an awful lot more than 400 tickets.
I still fail to understand where the money goes. What is this "production"? Although Carmina Burana was originally intended to be staged, nowadays it is almost always performed as a concert piece. The chorus parts are not hugely difficult, and are within the capabilities of a good amateur choir. Are large choirs in the US professional? In England they certainly aren't. They have overheads and expenses to be met, but the singers are not paid.
Of course, it may be that this $150,000 includes an allocation of fixed overheads. But that is a logical nonsense. Cancelling the concert will, by definition, have no effect whatever on fixed overheads.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-04-17 19:56
David, sorry if my comments offended you. I really don't "resort to sarcasm," but I occasionally use it because it can be an abbreviated way of expressing inferences, as you obviously well understand.
Or were you serious about resurrecting von Karajan?
With regard to 400 tickets being insufficient to support a $150,000 total cost, that isn't true if the tickets are $375 each. And if the tickets only cover a partial amount of the costs, usually the case with professional companies nowadays (grants, donations, and subscriptions covering the balance), obviously ticket prices can be much lower. I do not know the ticket prices for the LIPhilharmonic, but some concert tickets are quite costly. I don't know the costs for such in the UK, but here in the US, prices can be all over the place. At the Hollywood Bowl, for example, a popular summer venue in the Los Angeles area, prices range from one dollar (really) for a seat far from the stage to hundreds for a close-in box.
Production costs are those things that add up to enormous amonts of money almost without notice. As just one example, risers for the chorus have to be provided. These are generally rented, as ir isn't possible for each venue to have an unlimited supply. They must be delivered, set up, then taken down and returned.
This is just scratching the surface. If these and all other miscellaneous needs are met by well-paid people (which they are), using professional-quality equipment, the end result is a total expense that would boggle the mind.
This is why a motion picture sosts millions to make, although in looking at it, it's easy to say, "Why, my nephew could have done the same with a few of his friends for a tiny fraction of that."
Regarding choirs in the US, most have some religious orientation and are unpaid. However, many of those include a number of professional singers who are well-paid. Some (a small minority) use all paid singers
Regards,
John
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Author: justwannaplay
Date: 2004-04-17 22:17
Shame, I was just on LI (my native land), about two miles from Hauppauge High School and would liked to have gone, had I known about it (that is, if the concert hadn't have been cancelled). Thanks to GBK for mentioning it though, as now I know that there *is* a LI Philharmonic, and will try to support it when I can.
Elizabeth
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Author: Tom J.
Date: 2004-04-20 17:27
The article reveals :
"Previously, a January pops concert featuring singer Ben E. King of the Drifters was canceled, also for lack of sales."
That was their problem.
They should have engaged Lil' Kim or Outkast instead !!!
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