 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2004-04-11 20:51
As a collector of clarinet music, I wonder why some concertos are not recorded? To my knowledge, many concertos such as Bozza, Tomasi, Milhaud, Sutermeister (just to name a few off the top of my head) that are not currently featured on recordings that are in print. I've actually managed to hunt down some out-of-print ones on ebay, amazon.com used, berkshire record outlet, etc... But I think some pieces have never been recorded...
For pieces that are not recorded at all, is there any reason? How much does consumer demand factor into it? Obviously, there isn't much of a market for the Bozza clarinet concerto or whatever (unless there are bunch of dorks like me out there that I don't know about...), but couldn't someone record it on a CD with more popular works. This would be the musical equivalent of a rider. = )
Other factors that it might be: How much does it have to do with the availability of orchestral parts? Are no players willing or interested in exploring these pieces? Are there maybe copyright issues or something?
Just curious. If someone made a CD of "rare clarinet concertos", I'd certainly buy it. I figure it's worth asking.
Thanks
DON HITE - theclarientist@yahoo.com
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2004-04-11 21:38
For the Milhaud:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000006TJ/qid=1081719241/sr=1-15/ref=sr_1_15/103-8568595-1576632?v=glance&s=classical
Tomasi:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000001SPA/qid=1081719386/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/103-8568595-1576632?v=glance&s=classical
Did sutermeister really write a concerto?
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Author: Kevin
Date: 2004-04-11 23:02
For older pieces, I'd guess it's the simple fact that nobody listens or knows about that anymore.
For contemporary pieces, pieces written by living composers are much more expensive to record, since you must pay the composer himself (or the copyright holder if not the composer). Also, performance rights are usually given to one performer.
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2004-04-11 23:50
I contacted Koch-Schwann about the Tomasi CD and it's no longer in print, and despite my searching, I haven't found any available copies of it (once, there was a used one on amazon.com for 80 bucks, but I"m not that stupid..). The Milhaud CD appears to be unavailable except for used copies... I actually already have a recording of the Milhaud also, it's a Koch-Schwann with Brunner that I got used off amazon (also out of print).
It's a shame that so many works may never even make it to a CD or performance hall. I'm a big fan of Bozza, and I've also noticed that very few of his works are available on recordings. I know he's written symphonies and other pieces that (because they are hardly ever performed or recorded) I may never get to hear. It's kind of sad, in a dorky-musician way.
You'd think modern composers would want to do everything they possibly could to encourage performance of their works. I understand that they need to get paid for their work, but if it's too expensive to perform or record, then they aren't getting paid anyway...
DH
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-04-12 00:28
Classical music labels, which have been consolidating and disappearing at an alarming rate, are currently putting a tight reign on expendatures. Many big name artists have even been dropped by their record companies after long associations.
Witness the rise of Naxos as one of the major factors currently influencing the way competing companies now view future recording projects. Naxos, to their credit, succeeds in this very bleak market by offering a one-time lower fee to (highly talented) artists who would not normally have had recording opportunities with the major labels.
If you haven't noticed, there now is an abundance of classical recordings repackaged to sell with fetching titles like "Mozart Goes to Movies", "Bach for a Romantic Evening" or other such pap.
While the world is certainly not clamoring for the 129th version of Mozart's Clarinet Concerto, chances are (if it ever is recorded) it will still sell more copies than "Rare Clarinet Concerti by French Composers" ...GBK
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Author: Jim E.
Date: 2004-04-12 04:21
Marketing plays a large role in what is available as recordings, and sadly, these works simply will never enjoy a very large audience.
That said, CDs brought a wealth of classical type of music to the American (and world, I suppose) marketplace that was never available on LPs (vinyl.) Thius might be due to factors such as ease of proidiucing CDs and the relatively small space they take up in shipping and in retail bins. The extra time available on a CD vcompared to an LP likely is a factor as it seems that sometimes lesser known works are used as "time fillers" with the more known pieces.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-04-12 05:24
Surely, xome of them are unrecorded for the same reason that some plays never have ben turned into movies: no one wanted to risk the production costs in the hope of making a few bucks.
It's been around for years, and it's never been recorded before? In the recording industry, that would be the kiss of death.
Oh, yeah: I'm with Liquorice. Sutermeister wrote a concerto? For Clarinet? Really?
Regards,
John
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-04-12 12:00
To quote George Szell: "There are no undiscovered masterpieces". In some cases, these various concerti would be of some interest to the clarinet fan who wants a recording of every piece ever written. Often pieces are not recorded because they are simply not great works. A work may be of interest academically, but not to a casual listener. Nobody wants to spend a lot of money for the orchestra, recording, mastering, producing, etc, etc. to sell 27 copies.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2004-04-12 13:26
While it is not nearly as well known as his "Capriccio", Sutermeister did indeed write a concerto for clarinet. Published by Schott and, the last time I checked, still in print (or, at least, the piano reduction was still available). It's listed in the composition database, BTW.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2004-04-12 14:12
In Germany I once bought sheet music that wonderfully explained transposition and had many excercises in different keys. As far as classical music recordings and sheet music, the selection in Europe is very good. So on your next trip to Europe, do some shopping.
Good luck,
Ron Jr.
Post Edited (2006-03-06 18:28)
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-04-12 17:45
Well, Don, in my own experience, which includes running an indie classical label recording just this type of music, the limitations are largely economically driven. Naxos is able to succeed right now because they are paying laughably low wages to the Eastern Bloc orchestras they use (not all their recordings, but many), and can therefore produce an album for a fraction of the cost in the US or Western Europe. The cost here to get even a third-tier ensemble in front of the microphone is prohibitive by the time you factor in union scale, licensing fees, engineers, electricians, etc. A rip-roaring success in classical circles would be about 10,000 copies sold. 30,000 is a blowout. Tough to feed 70 - 100 hungry mouths on the margins in 10,000 CDs. It takes crossover (think 3 Tenors) to move anything resembling pop volume. Even using the cheap music labor, Naxos still hasn't taken a lot of chances with their catalog.
Long winded preamble to saying that a label is only going to wager on something they know they can sell enough of to cover costs. That pretty much means either a warhorse, or better -- a warhorse played by a big name artist. There is a lot of lesser known and really wonderful music that will stay lesser known because the labels can only afford to meet demand, not create it.
The great white hope lies in artists developing their own recording projects without the involvement of a major label. Several orchestras have set up house labels, with more on their way. The accessibility of the technology is such that some of the esoterica will now make it into circulation -- more and more artists are willing to underwrite at least the labor cost to make these recordings. Keep your eyes and ears open. You might be pleasantly surprised.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-04-13 04:47
Jack: Oops. Thanks.
Mark: As you understand the limited-market recording industry, you may know that a few years after WWII, for quite some time a number of small labels scoured Europe for performers who would play on the cheap. And they found a lot. Many cuts were made, many records were sold. But almost all of these were of better known selections from the classical repertoire. Even then, when there were far fewer bux at stake, producers were loath to risk going with obscure music.
I may not like that, but from a business sense. it works. Good will wouldn't pay the rent then, and it still won't.
Regards,
John
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-04-13 12:29
One of the limiting factors with "obscure" work is that it isn't getting heard despite its quality. We know a lot of the music as practitioners, but outside of university recital halls and practice rooms it isn't being programmed. Consumers are justifiably reluctant to take chances with their money. They buy what they know, which is why radio play is so incredibly important to record sales.
Interesting factoid -- I am also exec director of a chamber music series where we always balance something well known with something equally wonderful but obscure on every program we stage. For our last program, David Hattner performed two clarinet quintets with a terrific string quartet. The headline work was the Brahms Clarinet Quintet. Doesn't get more mainstream than that. The other was Sean Osborn's Clarinet Quintet #1. Audience came in skeptical, and left at intermission asking me whether the work has been recorded and where they can buy it. (By the way, the performance pretty incredible which didn't hurt.)
Obscurity becomes self-perpetuating unless those who know the works (that would be us) program and perform this material. If it is good music and it gets heard, it will get bought.
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-04-13 22:14
my two cent's worth: I love those "eastern bloc" orchestras, everything about them, their sound, the warm of their string and wind playing ... intuitive sense of style ... I own a couple of thousand CDs and about 200 are Naxos ... go figure.
If they (Naxos) were to produce a CD of obscure clarinet music - I'd buy it, for sure.
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