 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: michael
Date: 1999-12-12 19:39
The 3rd line B is such a tough note. I can play it but it always has that tentative feel. Once I decided to just let it "go" and see what happens--sounded like a G (just above the staff.) My low register sounds fine,so it has to do with the register key. I know this has been talked to death here, I just wanted to vent.
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Author: ron
Date: 1999-12-12 20:27
Michael,
You or your favorite tech should immediately check for leaks, as Rick says. A feeler or a leak light will quickly indicate where the problem is. Take it from there.
Ron
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-12-12 20:37
I also think that you may have some leaks. It is quite possible for the low notes to play fine despite a minute leak but it will make one or more of the clarion notes (especially the B) poor.
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Author: michael
Date: 1999-12-12 21:22
Thanks, Rick2, Ron and Dee. I honestly didn't think of leaks, because it is a new instrument. I'll take it in and get it checked. I guess I have just gotten use to blaming myself.
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Author: William Fuller
Date: 1999-12-12 23:23
It is probably a leak, but if not, the problem may be accoustical. For this, you can make things better by turning the bell by 1/4 inch movements and playing B. You should find that "one sp;ot" where your B sounds the best, and maybe lots better anyhow. This should also be done for throat G by turning the barrel in similar fashion.
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Author: michael
Date: 1999-12-13 01:34
William Fuller wrote:
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It is probably a leak, but if not, the problem may be accoustical. For this, you can make things better by turning the bell by 1/4 inch movements and playing B. You should find that "one sp;ot" where your B sounds the best, and maybe lots better anyhow. This should also be done for throat G by turning the barrel in similar fashion.
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Now that is something that I have never heard. Very interesting; I'll give it a try.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-12-13 02:04
Good advice above, will have to try the bell and barrel position test! From my semi-pro repair experience, I've found that a playing test is required to ascertain proper, matching seating of the [mid-staff] B and C pads, particularly when depressing ONLY the left little finger key. In seating new pads, I depress that key and slightly heat one or both pads to form a visible ring on each. Then the right LF key is also OK [assuming no other leaks or "reach" problems due to a too-low location of the thumb rest]. I'm sure the pro repairpersons will have more to say, I hope. Best wishes for a clear and easy B. Don
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Author: Willie
Date: 1999-12-13 02:41
I gotta try that bell thing also. However don't limit your search for leaks to just the pads. I've seen a minute leak in the corks cause some pretty frustrating problems. Goop up your joints with a little extra cork grease and test fire it. You can always wipe it back off.
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Author: Rick2
Date: 1999-12-13 04:16
Don, how are you heating the pad when you're depressing it, from the back of the cup?
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Author: Jessica
Date: 1999-12-13 04:47
I used to have trouble starting third line B's, especially softly. My teacher taught me to play it with the Ab key open (left index finger). It speaks easier that way. You might try that in case it is you after all and not the horn.
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Author: William
Date: 1999-12-13 14:32
FYI: The accoustical positionsing of the bell and barrel idea came from Ben Armato's (the Reed Wizard inventor) book on reed adjustment. Credit should be given where credit is due. It worked for me. Thank you!!
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Author: Kevin Bowman
Date: 1999-12-13 14:56
I first learned about the bell/barrel turning from my professional tutor. After a few lessons of seeing white "alignment" marks placed in his horn (between the barrel/upper joint and the bell/lower joint) I was truely miffed about the meaning of the marks. So I asked and got the advise about trying different possitions of these parts. While the tonal/acoustical differences are not as drastic as they might be with a different mouthpiece or reed or ligature, every little bit of improvement helps.
However - your ears need to be fresh to begin finding the optimum positions. Approach this task as you would try out a bunch of new instruments (to determine which is the "best"). I'd start with 1/4 turns and then try to "center in" on the best position. Start with the barrel only (leave the bell in one position) since changes in the barrel position will yeild the largest changes. As stated before, use the throat tones - but also check some other notes, especially in the altissimo. Changes in the bell position will be more audible in the "long" fingerings - check low F and E, middle line B and forth space C & C#. Also check the long fingerings for altissimo F and F#.
Also - do have the horn checked for leaks. The biggest problem I've found on my student's horns is a maladjustment of the bridge mechanism preventing either the LH 2nd finger small pad or the top pad of the lower joint from completely sealing.
Kevin Bowman
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-12-13 16:01
An astute observation Kevin, yes the accurate matching of the bridge key halves [cork needed!], which is required for the "long" Bb/F fingering [partic. useful on my bass], if overdone can sure give other response problems. My test is that if one can feel its closure via the left ring finger, that some adjustment is needed. Yes, Rick,I heat the padcup Mildly and Carefully, often with a "gopher" match or candle flame [an alcohol lamp would be better, a lower temp!] which will soften the adhesive slightly and permit the pad to shift as needed to seat well. In summer I sometimes rubber-band the keys closed and make use of the sun's warmth, in winter, the furnace's register. I'll bet some of you just shudder at these tricks, which seem to work for me!
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Author: ron
Date: 1999-12-13 18:24
Well, Don - if it works, use it. Experimenting has sometimes had a happy ending for many a tech I've known over the years.
I've heard of many things that are 'unconventional' (like rubber bands and sunlight) but work. And, really, what's important is the final result. As long as it doesn't cause another problem, and you get what you're after... Just don't go to the extreme of, "If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is." -- you'll be fine.
There was a public TV program a year or more ago, The Tree of Music (I think) that showed clarinets at a factory, in Europe I believe, being 'tested' by a musician to find the best bell position for each horn, individually. I think they then put the top-facing trade mark at that position. Don't know that barrels are that critical. It was an interesting program. I'd heard long ago, from other clarinet players, about the bell position making a difference but here was some verification of it --- on public TV no less!
Still, while that may improve things a little bit acoustically, it's no remedy for a leak.
Ron
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-12-14 16:13
Lots of people are giving advice to check for leaks on the horn. True, a leaky pad causes all kinds of problems. However, also check for a leaky mouthpiece to reed seal, making sure the lay of the mp is absolutely flat and true. Ditto for the reeds, because warped reeds are a potentially major problem area. However, check for a slightly leaking embouchure. Many of the clarinet's notes speak easily with a weak and slightly leaking embouchure, but the low clarion B and the altissimo register notes require a very good seal with lots of high quality air support to make them speak properly (from ppp to fff at will).
Start your B by playing the low F with the same fingering but without the register key. Then, slowly roll open the register key and add some air support. Try it at a comfortable mf level or so to start out. Then, play the low F at ppp to ff (don't blow it extremely loud, keep it under control for now) and back down to ppp. Open up the register key and try it from say p to ff (less of a dynamic range to start out) for the B. If the note starts stable and then wavers, either your air support or your embouchure are at fault.
Another trick is to lighten up on the reed strength. You can "buy" a lot of air and embouchure support with a lighter reed, especially if you have a medium-open to open mouthpiece (like the Vandoren B45 or equivalent). As an adult novice, I use Vandoren V-12 2.5 reeds on my B45 mp. A 3.0 V-12 reed is just too much for me.
Let a good clarinet tech take a look at your complete clarinet rig (mp, lig, typical broken-in reed, barrel, upper joint, lower joint, bell) and play it as a complete system. I would bet that in less than 5 minutes, the tech will be able to tell you where the clarinet has problems. Ditto for private lessons with a pro to get your part of the system working properly.
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-12-14 20:52
Oops! Who else caught my error?
Start the B with the low F. Nope. Start the B with the low E.
Like I said, check for leaks from the top down, starting with the brain first...
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Author: michael
Date: 2000-01-04 00:42
Dee wrote:
I also think that you may have some leaks. It is quite possible for the low notes to play fine despite a minute leak but it will make one or more of the clarion notes (especially the B) poor.
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I finally had time to take my clarinet in for a check.
The repair tech found 3 small leaks and fixed the pads.
It really feels great to play with a little more confidence. The B sounds fine now. Michael
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