 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: AJ
Date: 2004-04-10 17:37
Hi all
I need help memorizing all the minor scales, E-G three octaves and the rest two octaves melodic and harmonic. The reason I need to do this is foy my music exam coming up soon and I need to have memorized all these scales. I will not be tested on all of them but I need all of them to be ready so I can be tested on any random scales. I have no trouble playing them, the fingerwork is fine, I just need some way to memorize them all and lately I have been struggling a lot. Any suggestions?
Thank you
AJ
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Author: matilda
Date: 2004-04-10 18:10
It sounds like you are preparing for ABRSM grade 8. The best way to memorise the scales is to play them. Over and over again. Write them out in a mixed order e.g
Mon Ehar Gmel Bhar Dmel
Tue Emel G#har Bmel D#har
Wed Fhar G#mel Char D#mel
Thu Fmel Ahar Cmel
Fri F#har Amel C#har
Sat F#mel Bbhar C#mel
Sun Ghar Bbmel Dhar
Each day play the given scales up and down about 10 times and then play them interupted a few times to really get your head round them. This will take a while at first but by the end of the first week you'll be getting much faster and within 2 or 3 you will have them completly under your belt. It might be boring but you won't even have to think about them in the exam, your fingers will just play. When you first do this play them all slurred, it is easy to put in the right tongueing once they are memorised. I used this method for all my scales and arpeggios and got 19/21 in the exam.
There's a book called 'The Clarinet, A comprehensive method' by Frederick J. Thurston and Alan Frank which is really good. It has complete scale and arpeggio exercises and technical studies in all keys which is really good for getting your fingers to remember where to go. Learning your scales throughly should result in you just playing them and not having to think about it first.
The best way really is practise, there are no shortcuts to learning them properly. If this is done sight reading and all round technique will imporve greatly. It just needs time and dedication.
Good luck!
Matilda
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Author: chicagoclar
Date: 2004-04-10 22:25
The best advice I can give you for memorization in a short time is to learn the theory behind scales and think it out (quickly) before playing. For example if they ask you your G sharp harmonic minor scale think: 4 sharps (F, C, G,and D) and F double sharp for melodic. So, as you go up think about the key and it should help.
I must add that this is only if you have a short time to memorize them. I have my students learn scales as soon as they have learned 8 notes in succession and they must memorize them to the point that their fingers just know what to do.
Good luck!
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-04-10 23:34
I'm going through memorizing my minor and major scales right now too (not for any exam though. Just cause it'd be a good thing to do and I'm sure it'll help out in the future). And when you think about the difference between a major scale and a melodic minor, it's VERY slight. What I do, which seems to work pretty well, is this...
For a melodic scale, let's say E (since it's the lowest note), simply play the major scale, but the third note your finger comes upon, flat it. So it'd be E, F#, G (since that's the flatted third), A, B, C#, D#, E. On the way DOWN, the note that was the flatted note (in this case G), is the key that you will play it in. So G only has 1 sharp (F#), so play from the E down to the next E, but all naturals except for that F#. If you think this, it's easy to figure out the ups and downs of any note scale you try (although some will be MUCH harder than others. Try playing an F# melodic minor. Not so easy!) But for an A scale it's a flatted third (C) so all naturals on the way down, for the C scale it's a flatted third (Eb) so it's three flats on the way down, etc.
It works when starting out to learn them, and eventually, I'm sure, they'll just fall under your fingers. The harmonic scale is a little more confusing due to that 1 and 1/2 step "jump" at the end. I don't really have a 'trick' for that.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2004-04-11 03:44
If you have no trouble playing them but only memorizing them, then I wonder if you've seen the Circle of Fifths. It looks like a clock, with the C major (and its related A minor) on top, and the F#/Gb major (and its related D#/Eb minor) on the bottom. It helps you remember the relationships of one scale to another. I have one made up in Microsoft Word if you're interested. It also appears in some instructional books.
Minor scales, of course, begin on the note that's a third below the major scale. (To figure out the related minor of C, count C as the first, B as the second, and A as the third. In music you always count the note you're starting with to figure out the intervals.)
For melodic minor scales, play the minor going up, and the related major scale coming down - this is the same as what Alexi is explaining above, just different words. So for the A melodic minor scale, there are no sharps or flats coming down just as its related major, C major, has no sharps or flats.
The harmonic minors contain the same notes going either direction.
For your exam, you don't have to learn to play the scales with different articulations? Here in Canada the examiner can ask you to play any scale or arpeggio they choose, using any one of eight articulations that they choose. Perhaps that's coming up in another level for you.
With the input of several of us using different words to explain things, I hope you get it figured out in time. I wish you well on your exam!
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Author: chuck
Date: 2004-04-11 03:54
Brenda: In the melodic minor, the third is minor both ascending and descending. The sixth and seventh are both in the relative major, and are minor descending. Chuck
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2004-04-11 11:46
Chuck: Since AJ already knows how to play the minors I didn't want to muddy the waters with something he already knows. I've had to play these scales for exams as well, but it's great to include the details on the BB for those who don't know the harmonic minors. Thanks for that.
I remember thinking, when hearing the harmonic minor the first time, how these sounded so Chinese-like to me. Over time I've come to play them by listening to the intervals more than actually thinking of the individual notes, the same with the dominant and diminished sevenths.
Each one eventually works out their own tricks to remembering these.
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-04-11 12:34
I have a few anchor points that I focus on for minor scales, that way when you have the basics in your head for a couple, the others can just follow.
Harmonic minors...start by thinking where the augmented second interval is (i.e. in A minor, it lies between f natural and g sharp). This is the interval that makes a harmonic minor sound the way it does.
Melodic minors...play a major scale on the way up, but flatten the third.
On the way down, it's the same as the relative major.
Also, practice scales that are harder than you need, that way the ones you do need to play will seem easier.
Try minors in thirds...
i.e. A harmonic minor in thirds...
a c b d c e d f (natural) e g (sharp) f (natural) a g (sharp) b a
As for practising...try this.
On a sheet of paper write out all the keys you need...
c, d flat, d, e flat etc. etc.
Then right out all the types of scales you need...
minor, melodic minor, chromatic etc. etc.
Put the keys in one jar or tin, and the scales in another. Draw them at random (one from each obviously!) to create a real workout.
The comment made by someone else about writing them in a strange order is all very well...if you are dedicated enough to play right through the order every time you play. You'll probably find you always start at the beginning, and stop halfway through, missing out some key scales. If you always play the same order...your brain associates scales together, which is not good. In other words, you won't be able to play c minor, unless you play a e flat minor before it and so on. My way, the order is always different.
This is how we do it at the Royal Academy of Music in London, we actually have classes where a prof goes round the room with a hat full of scales, and we have to play them to each other!
To make this worse, if you get it wrong, you have to nominate another student to play it for you!!!!
Danny.
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Author: ken
Date: 2004-04-12 03:37
I would be careful with the shortcuts when it comes to properly learning diatonic scales, it is a "muscle memory" exercise in of itself and easy to fall into the trap of learning scales by ear or finger rote. A student really needs to know not just the "what" but the "why" and "how" of any fundamental (i.e. correct key signatures, scale degrees, and modes, then followed by the right tonguing combinations is as much part of the process). For instance, my beginner-intermediate students must know and recite second nature the key signature of any scale and verbally spell it out loud on demand before playing it.
If it was me, and scales in the exam were going to be asked in random I would place more emphasis on memorizing them in like manner. Drilling myself or have someone do it is certainly effective. I agree, the mastering of maj/min scales in 3rds should be added into one's routine (in addition to 2-3 octaves of major/minor triads, and chords-extensions (in 3rds as well) -- dom7, maj7, dim7--half and full, maj6 & 9, maj pentatonics) however if NOT required in the exam I'd wait until later to start on them.
Simple rule of thumb counting scale degrees in the key:
Natural Minor: 1-2 b3-4-5-6-7 (octave) repeat descending
Harmonic Minor: 1-2-b3-4-5-6-(raised-#7) (octave) repeat descending
Melodic Minor: 1-2-b3-4-5-(raised 6/#6) (raised 7/#7) (octave):
Play a "natural minor" scale descending: (octave) 7-6-5-4-b3-2-1
Don’t forget the chromatic scale in there too. On Bb, low/chalumeau E natural to at least altissimo G natural and back down, smoothly and evenly at no less then 1/4=120, preferably 152 or more … slurred, and later with basic tonguing combinations. Also, using both left/right side pinky combinations, including optional articulated Eb/Ab key. Then, learn it using alternate fingerings, such as side throat f sharp, side Bb and forked fingerings for low B natural and clarion F sharp. v/r Ken
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-04-12 15:57
I agree with the 'just play them' crowd. Scales are supposed to liberate your conscious mind--not burden it further.
I would offer three pieces of advice on memorization:
When practicing, play each thing that's unmemorized 10 times in a row. Do it with the music so that you don't program mistakes into your fingers. Then try 3 times with no music. Don't work groups of scales together. Memorization requires repitition. Do this methodically.
If having trouble, build each octave note by note. 1-2-1, 1-2-3-2-1, 1-2-3-4-3-2-1, etc. Maybe you don't practice as much downward as you do upward. Maybe you're trying to memorize intellectually and are making mistakes as you play.
This is a physical task and it takes time. MAKE TIME. And remember that you are programming your fingers just as you would a programmable calcluator. One keystroke out of place, and all is for naught.
Make sure that on each scale you've practiced it right more times than you've practiced it wrong. Failure to do this is one of the chief causes of memorization problems.
I saw someone on this BB post a tagline that really summed it up...
"Amateurs practice until they get it right. Professionals practice until they won't get it wrong."
Allen Cole
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-04-12 16:46
Allen,
Glad you liked my tag-line...I gained that from an American Professor I had...and have lived by it ever since.
Hell...it's even tagged at the bottom of my CV!
Danny...
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Author: CJB
Date: 2004-04-12 17:54
When I was preparing for my ABRSM grade 8 more years ago than I want to think about I used the jar technique - all scales etc listed on scraps of paper then pulled them out of the pot one at a time alternating the articulation style. Any mistakes and the paper went back into the pot and repeated later - for some reason that was always F# melodic minor!
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-04-12 22:24
My only question is why have you left this to the 'last minute'?
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2004-04-12 23:10
It's because the scales are the easiest to weasle out of during practice - unless you have a teacher who asks to hear them every week! Then you're stuck including them in your daily practice.
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-04-13 01:59
Damn ... I KNEW my teacher was unresonably horrid whilst I was a student ... had to do scales (selected ones) each and every lesson
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-04-13 14:38
Brenda,
I'm glad that you brought up scale 'enforcement.' The most annoying thing about teaching is the need to constantly test for scales and arpeggios that should've been put to bed at the get-go. But with each passing the year, the necessity becomes clearer and clearer.
Students everywhere:
We don't WANT to test you--we HAVE to test you. Practice your scales (and arpeggios) until we can TRUST you. Quite frankly, we'd rather play duets...so practice your counting too!
Allen Cole
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Author: jo.clarinet
Date: 2004-04-13 15:40
Well said, allencole! I heartily agree with your 'exhortation to students'! Some of my pupils drive me mad with not learning their scales properly, and don't seem to realise (no matter how many times I explain it to them) that if they could play the ones they are asked for straight away, they'd have much more of their lesson-time left for other things...... ![[right]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie8.gif)
Joanna Brown
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Author: AJ
Date: 2004-04-14 08:33
I've been doing everything on my own so far, my first clarinet teacher traveled and the one I am working with now is stuck in Iraq becuase the borders are down. I memorized major scales (from before) scales in thirds are easy, arpeggios in major chords are easy although i am stumbling with the arpeggios in minor chords.
I will practice, (since I am not too good with thinking quickly of patterns) the repetition method. And for some reason the minor scales are the hardest to memorize (for me). The bad thing is I just got sick! And I really dont feel like practicing (although I could just do fingerings). Things are just not going to well for me. But I am going to be strong and I am going to do really well on this exam. Thankx everyone for your advice.
I love this quote!!!!
An amateur practices until it's right...a pro until it's never wrong.
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Author: Oldbass
Date: 2004-04-15 13:24
I also have a problem rembering my minor scales and become easily confused between which is the harmonic and which the melodic one. Here is an idea which might just help.
1. You have to know the major scale. Usually the easy part.
2. You must know which are the third, 6th and 7th notes of the major scale.
3. In both melodic and harmonic scales the third note is flattened.
4. Melodies involve different notes so going up is different to coming down the scale. (A device to help me remember which is which).
5. In melodic minor scales the 6th and 7th notes are flattened coming down, but not going up. Perhaps think of someone falling *flat* on their face, as they run down the stairs (scale). It is easy to slip coming down!
6. In harmonic minor scales the 6th note is flattened going up and down.
7. Remember the third is flattened in both scales.
Now are you really confused??
Oldbass
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-04-15 13:32
This is one of the things that I like about music theory. There are so many ways to figure something out that you can just choose the one that works for you.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: skye
Date: 2004-04-20 13:07
I hate to tell you this, but it took me a full six months playing all of the scales over and over again before I was sure that I could play any one of them when asked, this was for grade 8 ABRSM. I also used the putting scraps of paper in a pot method, and also funnily enough, the ones that I just couldn't get sorted (and still struggle with at times) were Fminor and F#minor, both melodic and harmonic.
Post Edited (2004-04-20 13:08)
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