 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-04-06 17:21
Curious on this. Is the only/best way to learn to sight transpose is just to pick up some pieces and do it? I was attempting to play a duet with a girl in my chamber orchestra piece (piece for clarinet, oboe, and flute) so I was attempting to sight tranpose the flute part to Bb. Didn't do too bad, but I'm no where where I would like to be.
Also, what are some of the common ones that I'll come up with as a clarinetist? The only ones I could think of off the bat would be transposing a piece in C to Bb, and transposing a piece in A to Bb (to transpose instead of using an A clarinet). Should I just concentrate on those and transposing other parts (Eb part perhaps)?
Thanks all.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-04-06 17:59
No easy answers, but it would be interesting to know what mental tricks people use.
One possible method is simply to learn it by rote, so that you can look at a C and "think" it as a D.
Another possible method is to shift each note as you see it, so you think "that's a C so go up one and it is a D".
A third possible method is to read by intervals rather than by pitches, so once you've got the first note you get the others by thinking "up a fifth on the music is up a fifth on the notes".
A fourth (and I suspect this is what I do) is to learn the transposition of a few notes and fill in the gaps by using intervals and scales.
Maybe there's an analogy with speaking a foreign language. A beginner thinks in his own language and mentally translates into the foreign one, a more practised speaker thinks in the foreign language and may even struggle if then asked to translate what he has said into his own language.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-04-06 18:22
I was awful at it, until I found a set of books by Robert Stark specifically for transposition.
As well as this...I use the first study in Uhl book 1, and play it in all keys.
Another common transposition is one needed in the Beethoven violin concerto slow movement...the outer movements are in A, the middle in C, who in their right mind is going to play the slow movement on a cold b flat?
So...from A to C is useful.
Another for orchestral stuff...such as Brahms 1 slow movement, is to go from A to B flat...which means down a semitone. Best way to think of this is to stick a flat in front of everything...or remove the sharps.
Remember also things like Mahler, Strauss and Stravinsky...the bass parts are often in A...and the e flat parts in D!
Sometimes composers get it wrong. The solos in Shostakovich 10 work much better on a B flat...so I switch and use one!
Good luck!!
Danny.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-04-06 18:42
Another frequently occuring transposition necessity/desireability is from Eb to Bb or vice versa. The trans of Basset and French horn parts [F] to Eb [alto cl] is the same as C to Bb, happily. I have found that playing both bass cl and bari sax, as in musicals, that the lower octaves fingers the same for the trans parts, so I sometimes pretend I'm playing the other inst down there. Of course going up into the throat/clarion [Bb] makes you "pay attention" to the Eb fingerings !! The trans for playing of A parts on a Bb is very tough for me, what little I still do, I just flat each note and struggle!! There are more tricks which I hope better musicians than I will tell you about! Work at it, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: AJ
Date: 2004-04-06 19:03
My orchestra conductor was meen, I mean he would just crack if something wrong would happen in the wind section, (but of coarse with the strings they make millions of mistakes and get away with it) Sometimes I got parts that were not in Bb, and I had to transpose under pressure, so thats how I learned to be good at it, either I play the right notes or not! I wouldnt dare make a mistake, atleast not with this conductor. If I wasnt under pressure I dont see myself transposing. I hope that'll help you. (Put pressure on yourself!?)
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-04-06 19:08
SWK is right on. The best thing is just to do it.
Some things that are helpful to me:
Some transpositions are more usual, and some others aren't. When doing a transposition that's uncommon to me, it becomes more automatic if I quietly and quickly run up an octave of scale in the appropriate key. This seems to establish the key very solidly in my mind. Even later modulations don't create a problem. .
As David suggests in his "third method," doing it by intervals is much easier to me. Having to go through the mental gyrations of "E has become D" or something like that would drive me crazy. Easier to just look at the chart and play.
I mentioned in another thread a gig where the whole world had to be transposed down a half-step. That worked okay, but I must admit that some Clarinet licks played by deeply ingrained finger motion were seriously modified that night.
Regards,
John
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-04-07 13:34
Quote:
I don't see how you'll learn any other way than doing it. Are you hoping there's an easy answer? I'm not gonna lie - I sure wish there WAS an easy way to learn, but I guess I'll just have to plug away as with my scales.
What I've been doing so far (when I needed to transpose, mostly from C to Bb and once from G to Bb) is thinking the intervals mixed with the scale. So when I see a written D I just play whatever note is one step above it(would be an E). And keeping the appropriate number of sharps/flats for transposition (concert C is our D scale). Also, when I see a run that goes up, I simply do the run in the "new" scale. The part that trips me up (as I'm sure it did many others when learning transposing) are the accidentals. If you see a D#, that now becomes an F which is tricky if it's at a quick spot. But I guess practice will help that.
Thanks for the tips and I'll be working on from C to Bb and from A to Bb for now.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-04-07 13:59
Here is an article that may give you some tips:
http://www.uoguelph.ca/~gnasby/clarinet-transposition.html
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2004-04-07 14:37
I like to think in a key signature, so when transposing from D concert, I think in E for the Bb Clarinet. Before the piece, I will get the "feel" of the E major scale in my fingers. This means you have to have your scale patterns down. Speaking of patterns, I look for those, too, so I am not looking at every note to transpose. So, if there is a pattern of rising thirds, I just play that pattern. "Just" is easier said than done, so the best way to learn, as someone else said, is to do it and spend quality time with it.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-04-07 15:34
Alex, accidentals aren't a great;problem if you treat them as you do the rest of the situation. If you were going to play whatever correspons to a D in your playing key and a D# appears in the chart, just raise whatever note you were going to play by a half step.
Seriously, this works for me, and I absolutely do not think of note names at all while playing. Just the feel of the scale of the key being played.
My opinion, and those who disagree may feel free to wallow in self-made difficulty all they want. 
Regards,
John
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-04-07 15:39
Never thought about it that way, John. Thanks for the tip! I'll give it a shot and see if it helps.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Brad
Date: 2004-04-07 23:03
One other transposition of sorts that us clarinet players need to do, is to be able to read Bass clef. Lot's of stuff written for Bass Clarinet in Bass Clef by Wagner, Shostakovitch and others. I've even seen some Bass Clarinet parts in A, and in Bass Clef.
A great way to get your Bass Clef chops up to speed is to get a copy of the Bach Cello suites. They are great on the Bass Clarinet, and since the lowest note on a cello is low C the suites at times use the extended range of the Bass Clarinet. If your Bass doesn't go down to low C then you will need to play a few notes up an octave.
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Author: claaaaaarinet!!!!
Date: 2004-04-08 03:13
Rachmaninoff 2nd Symphony is a good example of Bass Clarinet in A, written in Bass Clef. What a drag! After a few times through it's not too bad, but that first rehearsal is quite a surprise if you haven't seen the music before. I wish publishers would change the parts to suit modern conventions.
Post Edited (2004-04-08 03:14)
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Author: chicagoclar
Date: 2004-04-10 22:45
The most common transpositions I've had to use were all going to Bb but from Eb, A, C, and bass clef in C. Transposing from Eb, I pretend it's in Bass clef in C. That's just for me though. I've also transposed from Bb to Eb when I was playing the eefer and the clarinet section was strugling. The way I got better at transposing was by playing Don Giovanni. There are a lot of places where the clarinets tacet. I would go sit in the horn section and transpose their parts (written in Eb, F, Bb, D, C, A, G, ect). I also spent a lot of time playing the first bassoon part. This helped a lot, but I was lucky to have that opportunity. the best advice I can give is play duets with someone and transpose your part. I do this with my students who play oboe or sax as well as my friends who play horn and bassoon.
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