 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-04-09 20:56
I've been having some squeaking problems on my alto sax. At my last band rehearsal, my lead alto colleague (re)acquainted me with the "pop test". In this test, you put the wet reed on the mouthpiece, press the round end of the mpc against the palm of one hand, suck the air out through the reed end, and finally pull the mouth off the reed. If the reed is not split, the vacuum is supposed to hold the reed against the mouthpiece for at least several seconds. Finally, it is released with a "pop". Well, I failed the test miserably! But I'm sure it is not due to a split reed. I also don't see any obvious damage to the side and tip rails. Does anyone know what's going on here? And could this have anything to do with my squeaking problem? (For the record, I'm playing on a Meyer 6M mpc that was worked on by the late Jon Van Wie, with VD Java 3 reeds.) By the way, the pop test works fine on my B45 clarinet mpc, with Rico Royal #3 reeds).
Henry
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Author: Contra
Date: 2004-04-09 21:33
I have never heard of this test. It seems a lot easier to just look at the reed and do a little pushing to see if there is a split.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-04-09 21:37
If the "pop test" fails you may have uneven mouthpiece or tip rails -- split reed or not. An uneven facing may well be the cause of the squeaking. Try other alto mouthpieces.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-04-09 21:49
Gosh, Henry, in many years of alto etc sax playing, I'd never heard of it, either. It sounds like a good way to test a mp/reed combo for a tight fit, but I'd look to the sax for the problem. Any mis-alignment in the double octave key system [with the "wrong" key a bit open] might cause a squeek. Or the palm keys and the high "knuckle" key. Or neck cork! What notes squeek? You may want to make another trip to a sax repairer. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-04-09 22:06
David S.: I'm glad that at least SOMEONE is familiar with this test! I had hoped you would respond. I agree with you that failure of this test may indicate unevenness in the facing (or a too concave vamp area perhaps?). I may get in touch with you for further advice.
Contra: I agree that there are easier tests for a split reed. (And, as I said, I have ruled that out anyway.) It's just that my colleague presented it as a split-reed test. Anyway, does YOUR mpc/reed combination pass the test??
Don Berger: Always good to hear from you! So you hadn't heard of this test (and neither of the wine cork accessory I brought up before)? My sax was completely overhauled recently and I'm scheduled to go back to my tech for final adjustments soon. The squeaking happens mostly on G2 and above. Perhaps the mouthpiece is a bit too open for me.
Thanks a lot for your comments so far. Any other thoughts?
Henry
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Author: thezenclarinetist
Date: 2004-04-09 23:06
ive heard of this test. actually, im positive it could have something to do with the mouthpiece. i played on a vandoren m13 that i really liked a lot. in fact, i was positive id never get another mouthpiece. the day before all state auditions, i was playing with the marching band and left my clarinet unattended on the bleacher to get a drink of water (dumb mistake, but hey, i was a freshman...) and someone was messing around and accidentally knocked it off. i had a broken mouthpiece and was severely freaked out. i didnt get to try any mouthpieces for very long, since i needed to go to my audition the next morning, so i just bought another m13 straight out of the store without playing it. i tested it in the car, and man, it felt like i was blowing through a sock. i was squeaking and experiencing like hostile resistance. i thought, "well, this is the very same model as my beloved old mouthpiece! it must be the reed..." after the following 8 reeds i tried also failed the pop test, i was starting to get a little worried. i thought it was just me, and maybe if i played a little longer it would get better. it didnt. i continued to have this problem for nearly 3 months before my teacher was finally like "get a new mouthpiece already!" now i play on a german mouthpiece and like it even more than my first m13!
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Author: Burt
Date: 2004-04-09 23:45
I read about this test many years ago, to verify that a reed is flat and has no burrs on the back. (Of course, the mouthpiece has to be good in order for any of the reeds to pass.)
My personal experience using this test is not very good. Many reeds which fail the test play well, and a few which I sanded on the back later passed the test but did not play any better.
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Author: Lisa
Date: 2004-04-10 00:40
I've done the pop test before (on a clarinet mouthpiece), and I thought that it had something to do with the strength of the reed. Harder reeds take longer to pop, and softer reeds seem to pop right away and not stick to the mouthpiece tip.
How about that theory???
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Author: Contra
Date: 2004-04-10 01:52
Henry: Contra: I agree that there are easier tests for a split reed. (And, as I said, I have ruled that out anyway.) It's just that my colleague presented it as a split-reed test. Anyway, does YOUR mpc/reed combination pass the test??
Probably not. I played a reed that had a split in it for a few weeks and never had a problem with it. The glories of contra reeds.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-04-10 02:14
If you are not getting good suction, assuming your mouthpiece is OK, it is likely that your reed has warped so that it is not sitting flat on the table. Try some different reeds, some new ones and see if the problem continues. From what I have heard of JVW's work I would doubt it is the mouthpiece, but you never know. Good luck.
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Author: Nefertiti
Date: 2004-04-10 11:35
If the pop test doesn't work even though you try multiple reeds then it's the mouthpiece. You should get a new piece or have this one refaced. I know some people say the pop test doesn't matter but I'm a firm believer that it does. If I'm having a hard time with a reed 9 times out of ten it's not sealing correctly. Make sure your using a ligature that fits correctly too. I was using a Rovner for awhile that fit my alto piece but was orignally mad for clarinet I think. When tightened it would hold the reed down in back but there wouldn't be enough pressure on the front of the reed and I had problems.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-04-10 11:59
Kalmen Opperman says the pop test is useful, but you should only do it once, since it weakens the heart of the reed.
The first thing to check is whether the reed is warped down the center. This is a frequent problem with reeds larger than clarinet size, caused, I think, by the fact that the bark doesn't swell, so the only way the distortion can go is down. Put the reed on 400 grit sandpaper, preferably over plate glass, and sand the bottom to a mirror finish, Press only on the bark. Also, make sure there is no impression on the bottom from the window of the mouthpiece.
Second, on larger mouthpieces, you need to set the tip of the reed slightly higher (maybe 1/2 mm.) than the tip of the mouthpiece, since the reed has to wrap along the lay. Be particularly sure that it seals at the corners.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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