 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Eric
Date: 2004-04-01 20:34
Hello, I am building up my collection of recordings and I'm trying to find as many recordings of Szell/Cleveland Orchestra as possible. I just bought this amazing recording of the Brahms Violin Concerto with David Oistrakh and the Cleveland Orchestra. One thing that struck me deeply was the oboe solo in the second movement. Does anyone know who that oboist is? I have heard the entire Beethoven and Brahms cycles with Szell/Cleveland and have never heard that beautiful of a sound. Is it John Mack or his predecessor? Could the sound be the quality of the recording? I'm finding that Marcellus does not sound like Marcellus in this recording under EMI. If anyone has any other good recordings to recommend please do. Thanks.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-04-01 20:59
You have a good ear. The oboist was Marc Lifshey, who was, according to Robert Marcellus, the finest oboist who ever lived.
Many Szell/Cleveland recordings have been reissued at very low prices on Sony Classical CDs.
The Cleveland Orchestra has reissued a large number of recordings on its own label, from the master tapes. Many of them are in SACD format, though, which can't be played on standard CD players.
A number of performances have been reissued on a site called Locked In the Vault, which dubs from clean LPs. I have ordered several, and they sound very good.
For more, see http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=140177&t=140108
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: cowboyjonus
Date: 2004-04-01 23:35
i dont know who it is but i want to own every marcellus recording ever recorded. do you know if they sell the sony classics in sets? and also the "great preformances" series thats good too.
thanks
jj
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Author: Eric
Date: 2004-04-02 00:00
So who is it? Mack or Lifschey?
Jon, I have bought the Beethoven, Brahms, and Schumann cycles in box sets from Sony Classics. This link has the discography of Szell on Sony: http://www.sonyclassical.com/artists/szell/disc.html
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-04-02 01:13
as posted above, Mack was '65 on. If you find out the date of the recording, that should help.
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Author: Tom J.
Date: 2004-04-02 01:18
The Brahms with Szell/Oistrakh was recorded in 1970, months before Szell's death. Another great recording is the Brahms Double with Szell/Oistrakh/Rostropovitch.
Take it from someone who was there. the oboist is certainly John Mack.
The Cleveland Orchestra Store has all the Cleveland/Szell recordings available on Sony and EMI plus some private issue releases. You may want to visit them at:
http://www.clevelandorchestra.com/html/store/merchandisetypes.asp
They have some recordings of great performances not available elsewhere:
Beethoven Missa Solemnis
Schubert Octet (with expanded string section)
Sibelius 2nd Symphony
Sibelius 6th Symphony
Sibelius En Saga
Mahler 9th Symphony
Weber Oberon Overture
Ginastera Pampeana no. 3
Dutilleux Cinq Métaboles
The Szell Centennial Edition box also has three lengthy interviews with Szell
that are very informative.
In my private collection I have several tape recordings of Marcellus including:
Debussy Rhapsodie
Schubert Der Hirt auf dem Felsen
Mozart Concerto (a different performance conducted by Loren Maazel)
Recordings of Marcellus in the fifties (e.g. Schubert 9th Symphony, Szell/Fleisher Beethoven Piano Concertos) do not exhibit his mature sound. It wasn't until around the sixties that he developed the warm, centered, seductive sound that he is known for.
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Author: Eric
Date: 2004-04-02 01:31
Good advice, just looked it up online and the recording was made in 1969 meaning that Mack played the solo as I suspected. On the back of my Beethoven and Brahms cycle CDs, it says that most of the symphonies were recorded in many sessions with dates ranging from 1958 to 1968. Would this mean that Mack played principal on some recordings or would Lifschey play principal on all the CDs? I've never found the oboe sound (or the flute for that matter) on most of these recordings to be the best. I again have to question the quality of the recording or even possibly the projection needed to cut through the Cleveland Orchestra strings (a Gigliotti type of situation).
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Author: Eric
Date: 2004-04-02 01:55
Tom J.
Thanks for the confirmation on Mack and for the extra information on the recordings. When I get a chance to buy them, I will. On another note does anyone find something wrong with Marcellus in the recording of Waldweben? I don't think he has the same sound found in other recordings. Has anyone found the same or am I just hearing things?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-04-02 15:00
SWK -
Thanks for the correction.
I think there was no overlap between Lifshey and Mack. Lifshey left the orchestra suddenly because, I've heard, he couldn't put up with Szell's autocratic manner. I'm pretty sure that DeVere Moore (the oboe prof. at Oberlin, who had been assistant principal in Chicago) filled in until Mack arrived.
I absolutely agree with you about Marcellus. I heard him live many times at Oberlin and Severance Hall when I was at Oberlin in the early 1960s. In addition to being technically perfect, he had a wonderful ability to project the music out of the orchestra and into the hall. Lifshey had it, too, and it was a joy to hear the two of them working together.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2004-04-02 16:55
The Sir Thomas Beecham Society published a Szell discography about 20 years ago listing all of his recordings with every orchestra he recorded with along with their dates/location.
If you go to their website and contact their editor (who has a hyperlink at the bottom of the page), perhaps they would tell you about how to obtain that list.
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1947/society.html
Post Edited (2004-04-02 17:10)
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Author: Tom J.
Date: 2004-04-02 23:20
For all you Marcellus cult neophytes out there here is an informative interview with RM:
http://www.clarinet-saxophone.asn.au/articles/marcellus.pdf
RM mentions that he never really practiced diligently while in Cleveland, but I have it on excellent authority that he practiced 4 hours a day, EVERY day during the regular season.
Winners never quit and quitters never win.
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