 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-25 20:56
After years of playing I am still happiest with my old set of Moennig barrells for both my sets of clarinets...time and again the tuning and response are excellent...
Who out there plays on these as well?
David Dow
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Author: William
Date: 2004-03-25 22:53
I have one that works well on my Buffet R13 A, but not on the Bb. Makes tuning in the upper register easier and also improves its sound and projection. My R13 Bb is just fine with its original barrel.
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Author: kenbear
Date: 2004-03-25 23:25
David, what clarinets do you use the Moennigs on?
I used Moennig and Moennig-style barrels when I played R13s, but found them not to suit the Festivals which I know play.
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2004-03-25 23:39
My daughter uses a 68mm Moennig on her Buffet "LP". I can't explain why, but I feel that Moennig barrels work best on "pre" R13s and Chadash barrels work best on "post" R13s.
Does anyone else get this impression? Or, am I adrift in the sea of confusion.
Regards
Mark
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-03-26 00:54
Hi,
I have a real collection, a 68mm Moennig, a 67mm Chadash, a 66mm generic barrel that John Butler reamed to Moenning specs, and two Scott 67 and 68 aa2 barrels that are Moennig-like barrels. The Butler barrel is superb!!!!!!!!
I use them on a Buffet Academy, a LeBlanc Dynamic 2, and a Selmer 9*. All work great. I did get the 68mm Moennig stuck on a LeBlanc L200. Thanks to Dave S's advice, I was able to get it off and save the day.
That wide 12th is the culprit. A well-known NYC clarinetist and I have had a few casual discussion about some Moennig barrels he has that were done my Moennig himself. I've got some Harrison ligatures, he's got some barrels. Might be barter-time!
HRL
Post Edited (2004-03-28 02:44)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-03-26 01:17
They work great for me. Great tuning, great ring lots of resonance.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-26 01:22
I am using a set of Selmer Recital clarinets with Selmer Moennig barrels from the late 70s done with some maintainance(the barrells) from David Hite several years back. ..I love the warmth and freedom of sound they have...
I use Buffet Moennig with my Festival Buffets too...and find they work excellently. What I prefer about these barrells is the wonderful eveness of response and excellent 12ths. The throat register is also fine due to the nature of the bore configuration. Some players tend to forget how vital the barrell is and neglect finding something better than the old stock barrell which comes along with the clarinet.
Iwas recently dissapointed with the Deg barrell and the Pyne barrells as well...
David Dow
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Author: Burt
Date: 2004-03-26 02:48
I use a 65mm DEG Eddie Daniels (rounded) Moennig on my R13 built est. 1956. I found that this barrel plays as if it's a mm longer based on comparison to my old DEG barrel (the one with the "cooling fins"). The Buffet Moenning bore did not respond nearly as well in the upper Clarion - altissimo range.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-03-26 11:57
I have a couple and have yet to find a horn they work well on...
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-03-26 16:16
I have a Moennig (Albert/German system) horn. Frankly, I don't find any difference from any other decent instrument. It sounds just like a clarinet.
I'd like someone to offer a really good explanation of why Moennig barrels 'make a difference'. My Moennig barrel, the one that came with the instrument, fits the instrument, blows freely enough, intonation is fine and it looks no different than most other clarinet [tuning] barrels I've seen.
My question is: What makes Moennig so... whatever ???
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: Anders
Date: 2004-03-26 17:12
Ron,
If you check out the David Hite site here, you will find a disquisition by him on Moennig barrels.
Cheers, Anders
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2004-03-26 17:14
Hans Moennig introduced reverse cone barrels to accommodate large bore mouthpieces (Kaspar, some Woodwind Corp, Kaspar style). Most of mouthpieces until 1960 were design for big bore instruments. In 1955 a polycylindrical bore was introduced and Buffet clarinets became very popular. A large bore mouthpiece and non-tapered barrel created intonation problems for Buffet clarinets. Hans Moennig solved these problems by introducing the reverse cone tapered barrel.
If you play small bore mouthpiece designed for Buffet clarinet you will not benefit from Hans Moennig barrel.
Vytas Krass
Pro clarinet technician.
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker.
Former pro clarinet player.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-03-27 01:15
VK,
What "small bore mouthpiece designed for Buffet clarinet" were you thinking of?
HRL
PS The 12th is wide on my older Leblanc clarinets and the barrels that I have help a lot.
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2004-03-27 16:12
I have done a lot of work with barrels, making them in my workshop and measuring barrels that customers bring in.
Quite simply, a barrel that works great on one clarinet can be a complete dog on another clarinet.
A barrel that produces even intonation and well regulated 12ths with one mouthpiece can be totally out of tune with a mouthpiece with a different bore/chamber configuration.
The Moennig style taper came into vogue when everyone played R-13's and used a Kaspar style mouthpiece. The mouthpieces ended in an exit bore of 15 mm and the Buffet bores started around 14.76. With that combination, a purely cylindrical bore would produce very outsized 12ths at the top of the horn.
As I understand it, Moennig did not invent a reverse taper barrel bore, but he did "perfect" a taper and bore measurement that worked extremely well in this rather limited environment.
In this era, with multiple instrument makers with different bore styles. A Moenning barrel may work extremely well on some clarinets and be a total dud on others.
I play Selmer 10 G's from the late 1970's. A Moennig style barrel taper is essential for correct tuning and response with these clarinets.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2004-03-27 16:26
OK, I want to say one other thing on this topic.
As clarinetists, we need to think of the mouthpiece/barrel/clarinet as one unit.
It's easy and attractive to think of them a separate, interchangeable units, but in fact their operation is so inter-related that that kind of thinking is counter-productive.
Where am I going with this?
I'm not sure yet. I do know that good tone/tuning/and response depends on matching the mouthpiece to the player, then adjusting the barrel to the clarinet and the mouthpiece. A complicated process, but it can yield superior results.
Walter Grabner
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-03-27 18:30
WG,
A great bit of information; these are the types of morsels that are really interesting to me. I know you are a great proponent of the barrel and MP as a single unit but I did not realize until now the wide variety of exit bores on various MPs.
I just found that one of my Buffet Cs was well over 15mm, my Portnoy smaller, and some M3s that I have are very small at something 14.60mm.
Thanks for some great input.
HRL
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2004-03-27 18:47
Hank -
Exactly!
There is NO ONE barrel that will produce excellent intonation with each of these different mouthpieces.
A mis-match of bore sizes can produce some very interesting results!
Walter
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-27 19:22
I find an oscilliscope tuning device a wonderful tool....with my Moennig barrells I have no trouble acheiving excellent 12ths throughout the entire clarinet range with super Altissimo notes up to double high "G".
It must be also added that a given mouthpiece has to have a properly matched reed....many of my students either play on too hard or soft of a set up with dissapointing results....soft reeds will make some players play flat and with some players hard reeds will be a cause of sharpness....
In a concert coming up I am playing Werner Heider's Inventio for Clarinet which goes up to D just above high C...with my Moennig barrell/mouthpeice combo I find these notes speak with greater ease and flexibility of tuning...
I also get alot more reeds to work with less fuss as well...
With many students there is the danger of playing the Moennig Bb barrell on the A clarinet which it really wasn't designed for...once in a while I will notice something odd with a student's pitch and very often they are using the Bb Barrell on the A clarinet....
David Dow
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-29 13:27
It is excellent to see people with the expertise like Walter Grabner here on this board...!!!
Barrells can be a key problem to playing problems and it is important sometimes to have a teacher who is open to various problems that can come along with a student's clarinet.
From what I have heard from professional colleagues Walter's barrells are tremendous and tune and respond excellently....hand craftsmanship in my opinion cannot be beat.
It is also important(my opinion) to search for the equipment that will improve and give the sound you are searching for.
Sadly, alot of clarinet players just quit instead of trying different things equipment wise which may help them play better!
David Dow
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