 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-03-18 18:14
Just to satisfy my curiosity, I have been experimenting with putting the bell from my Buffet R-13 Bb clarinet onto my Buffet R-13 A clarinet to see if there was any discernable difference in tuning and/or sound. I was careful to select two of my R-13's that were somewhat of the same era (mid 1960's).
Before I post my impressions, has anyone done this same experiment?
What did you find?
Did you permanently make the switch? ...GBK
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-18 19:06
I have a Bb clarinet bell from an old R13 done by Moennig on my A Festival clarinet that works quite nice. It brings the pitch down quite a bit!
David Dow
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-03-18 20:12
The few "A" bells I've seen, in terms of differences in length and/or diameter (large end) or flare compared to typical Bb bells, were within the range of variations I've seen within a rather larger group of Bb bells only. In other words, I think it's safe to mix-and-match bells designated for Bb or A clarinets, with whatever clarinet, if it improves pitch and/or sound in some way(s) --- put another way, I don't believe there is really such an identifiable, distinct animal as an "A bell" or a "Bb bell". Like mouthpieces --- try a bunch, disregard the markings, use what works!
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-03-18 20:19
At least ONE thing we don't have to worry about!
Henry
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Author: William
Date: 2004-03-18 20:40
Just yesterday I switched bells on my LeBlanc concertos and thought I noticed an improvement in the tone quality of the A--especially its' long B. We have a symphony concert coming up this weekend and I'm leaving them switched to see how the "new sound" actually works out under performance conditions. Also, for what it's worth, a few years ago, I switched bells on my set of Buffet R13s and noticed similar improvements in the sound of the A. Tuning??? Stayed about the same as before the switches.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-18 20:50
So WILLIAM was the one I was thinking about! I thought I remembered someone remarking in past posts about improving the A clarinet with an accidental switching of the bells.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-03-18 20:54
There is a practical limit to switching things......I very recently 'made' a soprano sax mouthpiece from an Eb clarinet mouthpiece --- it worked, sort of --- but this particular experiment will never leave my house.....
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-18 21:07
Dave. Somehow, I can see you coming up with this unbelievable, unheard of, revolutionary musical invention. Something that noone would have thought of, but Dave. I don't know what it will be.....but I can't wait till it's available!
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-03-18 21:26
Alexi,
"Necessity is the mother of invention" --- I had a sudden, unexpected need for a classical-type soprano sax mouthpiece, my wide-open metal Rovner mouthpiece just wasn't cutting it (can't imagine why not....), so I had to get SOMETHING working until I was able to procure/reface a more suitable legit soprano sax mouthpiece --- thus the Abomination was created. And it shall forever remain in my basement.....
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-03-18 21:31
Several (old) parts purveyors do NOT distinguish between Bb and A in their parts lists; simply listing the older Buffet bells as " Bb/A ". My belief is that Buffet (even) does this on several older models (obviously where the replacement is not marked "R13").
My experience has been, if the length & design are (approx.) same - no appreciable difference was noted.
On the other mano, we have also experimented with DIFFERENT Bell length or design (eg totally different/foreign bell) - noting impact the exchanges had on Bb & A Clarinets. We found that the impact of the bell replacement (w/same "different" bell) was approximately the same.
We even had some R13 Bells (1 an R13 modified by Morrie Backun) which had received interior modifications - again, no significant differences as to response between Bb & A (although we noted an approx. equal difference or change in tuning for both from their Bells they were (presently) mated with).
As to the latter, we have experimented with Buffet & Yamaha (models from 61 upwards to present day) & back & forth between models.
best,
mw
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Author: john gibson
Date: 2004-03-18 22:24
Funny.....I placed an old paper towel tube(empty of course due to weight concerns) on the end of my R-13 and noticed no appreciable difference.
Well except my 17 year old daughter asking......
"what the hell are you doing? Doesn't it sound "bad enough" with the original equipment? Or whatever you clarinet nerds call it!"
She's into LaCrosse and not music!
KIDS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JG
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-03-18 22:36
Though shalt not taunt the laCrosse players... they eat their dead.
("The Dawn of the Dead" is loosely based on the last Mohican/Algonquin game to determine ownership of the Adirondacks. After the first 1000 combatants succumbed to exhaustion, the Jesuits moved in...)
Just tell her the paper roll helps you win more faceoffs.
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Author: john gibson
Date: 2004-03-18 22:58
SYNON.....
You crack me up....send me your address and I'll send you a really pretty paper towel tube.....WITH the R-13 logo in GOLD
JG
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Author: Burt
Date: 2004-03-18 23:13
The old (1930?) Buffet "A" I bought had a replacement bell, and third line B was terrible. My R13 (1956?) bell worked much better, but I needed two bells, so I bought a bell from a junk Buffet E&S; this worked fairly well also. The main difference between the bell which came with the "A" and the others was that it was a few mm longer.
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2004-03-18 23:24
Acoustically you should be able to play your clarinet without a bell as it only helps with projection.
The only variable I can think of is the "choke" at the end of the lower joint where the bell and the lower joint come together. This can be affected by different tolerances in the inside diameter of the upper section of the bell.
That being said, I think you may only notice a difference in projection but not tuning.
Best Regards
Mark
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-03-19 04:43
As a long-time advocate of a straight bore and very little (if any) bell flar (which Steve Fox tells me will not work), the bell is, in my opinion, designed to make the bottom end of the Clarion register sound worse, so everyone can complain about "bell tones."
Perhaps the best of all tones would emerge from a Clarinet with low Eb played only down to E. Such a stick would require not much of a bell at all.
I just tried sticking an A Clarinet bell on a Bb Clarinet and did succeed in awakening the cat (a formidable task).
Regards,
John
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2004-03-19 05:27
I heard a bout players of Rossi clarinets (with their one-piece body) pulling out at the bell to "improve intonation". I've always pulled out at the barrel and middle joint if necessary. I tried pulling out at the bell to see how much that affected tuning. Only the long E/B was affected. No other notes were affected, even when I pulled out half an inch! (more than that and the bell would have fallen off)
So I don't think changing between Bb and A bells would have much of an effect on tuning. When the rest of my family ake up this morning, I'll see how much difference it makes to the sound.
In the meantime, I'm still wondering how one tunes a Rossi instrument down in a very hot orchestra pit...
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2004-03-19 15:06
And for Dave's newest trick--an "improved" version of the Donkey Serenade written two octaves higher than before. Now all he has to do is tweak up the Donkies.
Bob A
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-19 15:55
It may not affect the pitch so greatly, but response which means flexibility may certainly be altered!
David Dow
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-03-19 16:53
Eeyuw...
If the donkey emits notes from one end, must you blow in the other?
Talk about dedication to your art...
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