 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: contragirl
Date: 2004-03-16 03:37
Ok... I have this friend that is in the National guard band, he's been in it for a little over a year now. He gets all kinds of cool benefits and clarinets! They just got him the Elite that he's been wanting forever... which I don't necessarily agree with personally. :P
Anyway... I'm still in college, I will graduate next year, but prolly go on to grad school (maybe in librarianship). And I'm thinking... maybe I'll join. What beats money for playing in the band once in a while (cuz it isn't full time) and a free clarinet of my choice? If I choose bass, or contra or whatever, I get it. Plus I would get all kinds of bonuses... and my credit card definately needs the paying off.
It's not too much of a commitment. It might be 2 years min., or 4 years, which doesn't bother me that much, cuz I will be in school too. And they would pay tuition! And I am pretty sure they are inactive duty. But boot camp is what scares me. I'm not too much in shape to begin with. I'm a lil chubby, and I could see myself dying while running a mile or something stupid. I almost feel like it would be a really tough version of marching band camp that would go on for 12 weeks. lol. Then I would miss my whole summer and my friends... then I would cry. :(
But I dunno, with so many perks, it would be great. But I just feel really nervous. I want to find out more info about I guess.
--Contragirl
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-03-16 03:46
Boot camp isn't that bad ... but ...
You can very easily end up being somewhere other than where you thought you might be.
Think hot & sandy. Really. Unless you get a iron-clad guarantee in writing that you won't be transferred out-of-state or be activated then there is a very distinct possibility that your unit will be activated and transferred. Not that it's a bad thing (I spent almost 7 years in the USN) but be prepared for that eventuality.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-03-16 04:09
You need to find out a lot more about the National Guard. Ask lots of questions of the right people who know the answers, and read all you can.
I would also suggest against becoming involved in any uniformaed service unless you feel a real desire to serve your country. Sure, all the other benefits can be grand, but improving yourself and taking a greater part in the maintenance of your nation really should be way up on the list.
Regards,
John
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-03-16 11:56
CG,
As mentioned above, the National Guard has a significant role in the national defense and that role is becoming more involved each year.
I spend three lovely years with the Signal Training Center Band at Ft. Gordon, GA. but after I got out in 1961 all sorts of things happened that were not as planned (Vietnam, etc.).
Thinks twice about this. The benefits and things are great (I got the GI Bill, credit for three years of active duty, GI Loan, etc.). But as Mark says, sand and heat are probably in the mix.
HRL
PS I work with military students all the time both on-base and off. This can be a tough life (deployments, separation from family, real danger).
Post Edited (2004-03-16 12:00)
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Author: growlingbunny910
Date: 2004-03-16 12:02
Watch out for the attached strings as mentioned by others to the National guard. It my be more economical in the long run to take out a loan and buy the clarinet.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-03-16 13:51
CG, eyes open. It is a noble pursuit to serve, but be sensitive to the personal risks. There is no guarantee you wouldn't be activated for other than clarinet duty, particularly if you aren't in one of the top ensembles (like the Marine's President's Own). I heard a statistic recently that as many as 40+% of current reservists are saying they won't re-up for another tour because they have been active much more than they thought going in. The US is fighting a war on two fronts, another could open at any time, and dwindling personnel resources are already stretched. If the Pentagon has able bodied and trained soldiers, musicians or no, and they need them activated, well, follow the bouncing ball...
Do it to serve your country, do it for self improvement, but not for the perks alone, because that free clarinet won't seem so terrific if you have to fix a bayonet to it. Talk to your local NG recruiter, but also see if you can talk to reservists that are already doing it and get their perspective. I teach with several who are proud to serve and enjoy the experience, and scared as heck they'll be trading their reeds for bullets.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-16 14:31
CG, I went through basic training once and am determined to join the AF reserve sometime in the future (I'm not sure when, but I know I do want to be a part of the armed services and the air force once again). All of the above is correct. If you are really focusing on getting money for college, I think that, while you probably could do it, you may not be very happy doing it. I love my country (USA), and two years in military school only helped to make sure of it and give me a deeper love for it, and although I realized that the school wasn't for me, and I didn't want to serve just then, I do know that I want to and will be going back. However I saw a lot of people who went to that school only because it was "free" and "good". And while they may have did well, I heard NOTHING but complaints and whining about how much they didn't want to be there.
Something like this is a very big decision. Just as big (I would say) as deciding what college to go to, or what career path to start on. It is after all, a career. I would go talk to recruiters and ask them to help you get in touch with members also to get first hand experiences.
BTW, here's an old thread I ran upon while perusing the past posts.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=108438&t=108438
Check it out. The link should still be working.
As for basic training, by my observations I was surprised at some of the people who managed to survive it (I didn't know that my school even accepted people in that 'shape'), so I don't think "a lil chubby" would really hold you back. Not from what I saw, and rumor has it that my particular school had a more physical basic traning than the standard air force basic traning. But that's just a rumor. I don't know since I've never been to Lackland AFB.
Good luck. If you decide this is the route for you, I will be genuinely happy, but please realize that it's a completely different lifestyle, it's not playing fulltime (I believe Ken Shaw is/was in an AF band. Perhaps he can pop in or email you to let you know about it) and take your time in deciding. This is a commitment, and once you sign those papers there's no backing out.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Tim P
Date: 2004-03-16 14:44
I spent 2years-10 months- 28 days- 6.5hrs in the USMC just in order to get the GI bill. As you can tell, I loved every minute of it (naught). I used my saved leave to get out early.
My wife, who witnessed me as I drove through the front gate, will tell you that to this day she thinks it was my happiest day in my life, bar none--included our marriage and the birth of two children. That was in 1976
If the bennies are that great then there must be a reason. Remember that you CAN_NOT change your mind like any other job and there is a real possiblity that you will have to KILL an other person. That person may be a clarinet player just like you who just wanted a new instrument. Be absolutely sure that you can do this.
A whole boat load of clarinets could not get me back in. Especially now. (sand and sun)
However, this can be, and has been a great experience for OTHER people, just not me. Just be sure that this is what you want.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-03-16 16:17
No boot camp.
No basic training.
Play for one month, take 11 months off.
Perform in the big cities.
Play your instrument for willing listeners.
Contribute your talent to a needy cause.
Join the Salvation Army ...GBK 
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Author: contragirl
Date: 2004-03-16 18:24
Supposedly this group is supposed to be an inactive group, like the premier bands for Army and Navy and stuff. I would think if my friend was going to be active, he would have been sent to Iraq right when it started. The National Guard Band is separate from the actual National Guard, in that respect.
The boot camp that they went to "Relaxin' Jackson," supposedly the easiest fort to go to. lol
--CG
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-16 18:52
If music is your first love, than this may not be the gig for you.
I played in a Militia Band for about 7 years...after that I hated anything to do with the miliaTARY BECAUSE so little of what the Band did was of little consequence to the military...
Military bands are a tough way to go...
The miliatary on any level pays pretty bad unless your top brass or have high rank!
David Dow
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-16 19:12
Quote:
Supposedly this group is supposed to be an inactive group, like the premier bands for Army and Navy and stuff. I would think if my friend was going to be active, he would have been sent to Iraq right when it started. The National Guard Band is separate from the actual National Guard, in that respect. The fact that you're in the national guard means that they CAN call for your services whenever they need too. Sure the chances might be slimmer than if you're a national guard tank driver, however it is still possible and something you have to take into account.Quote:
The miliatary on any level pays pretty bad unless your top brass or have high rank! The military has a lot of (I think they're called this) "hidden costs". Sure you start out at $24,000 a year, but with full compensation for housing (or a stipend if you decide to live off base), full medical, full dental, I believe full vision, a pension plan, tuition help, opportunity to travel and see the world, tax free stores, special military discounts for cars, special car/house/whatever insurance, and cheap (REALLY CHEAP) services (ie, haircuts, food, bowling, movies, small stuff like that), it all adds up to not-so-bad deal. And if you DO get promoted to a higher rank, then that's just THAT much more money you'll make.
But that's neither here, nor there. I'm just pointing out that this is something you really need to do more research on then just sticking to the BBoard (although I'm assuming that you are looking to factual places instead of just a bunch of bulletin boards and 'word of mouth' places). You can also get the facts from the recruiters (although they can be tricky sometimes) and see if this is something you really want to do. If so, you'll get a full physical, and they can recommend a workout routine to help gear you for basic training.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-16 19:24
My remarks were more directed in terms of career development as a clarinetist....
ie Orchestral, solo, studies(post grad) etc. This is a Clarinet Bulletin Board...so we are talking generally about being a clarinetist....
I have already done the miliatary deal and found much of the circumstances myself and colleagues in really having little to do with music.
On top of this starting pay is definitely not great compared to what one could possibly make in an orchestra or even as a University professor.
The only way to go, for a young person is to become an officer in the Miliatary...there are already alot of people who are unhappy in the miliatary...it is something to certainly not go into lightly....if you do something just because it is for money then you definitely won't be happy....you really want to use your own skills as a musician don't you?
David Dow
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-16 19:44
David,
As someone who's been there, done that, does being a military clarinetist help with applications for orchestras or other jobs? Or would they rather see you get a masters do you think? Just for my information since I want to join AF reserve but am wondering whether a reserve band would be a good move or not. (personally I like to get real physical and would rather look at something that I can get dirty and physical in such as security police or maintenence. That's also one reason I left the military school. I knew I would find being an officer not physically active enough for me.)
Quote:
I have already done the miliatary deal and found much of the circumstances myself and colleagues in really having little to do with music. I read about that in a past post. Someone remarked that often, you are assigned jobs to do throughout the day and playing ISN'T one of them so you have to find time on your own to practice and get better.
CG,
As to your original reasons you posted, there ARE other ways to get money for college and an instrument. My new job I just started offers tuition reimbursement as well as a 2000 dollar loan I can get once a year, each year for four years. And if you stay at the job for three years or more, the loans are considered "gratis" and you don't have to make payments anymore. That would be 8000 dollars in four years only making payments on the interest for two years. Not a bad deal. So if a new clarinet and a little extra money on the side is the main reason, I would say consider and see if there are other options on how to get it. I'm not saying that these are your ONLY reasons (I don't know you personally), but these seem to be the reasons you posted. And based on those reasons, I'd definitely think long and hard about it.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: ajablons
Date: 2004-03-16 22:10
I've been looking into this as well. If you are going to do it, I would suggest the AIR national guard. This is teh way you can have it written into your contract as to what you will be doing. The normal National guard (army) isn't this way.
Just an FYI
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Author: Mike Blinn
Date: 2004-03-16 23:59
Hi contragirl,
I spent eighteen years in the Connecticut Army National Guard, fifteen as a recon sergeant in a combat engineer battalion, and three as a recruiter. I think it's great that you would consider joining the Guard as a musician, but you must realize that no matter what you are promised, you are joining an armed service. You will go through the same basic training as someone enlisting in the U.S. Army.
Mike Blinn
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Author: contragirl
Date: 2004-03-17 00:04
My friend says that the band has NEVER been put into active duty. They are also very very very laid back. The band maybe has 30 people or less. No bassoons or oboes. He said the one time they were sent to "guard" a parking lot, the cheif of the band yelled at whoever directed them to do that, because that isn't what the band does.
It isn't a very strict group from what he tells me. You aren't even required to go to rehearsals, cuz you get paid by what you go to. It's isn't full time, cuz most ppl are still in school and have other full time jobs. They do PT one a month, PT tests twice a year, one boot camp, some band training... and even the boot camp isn't all that bad. As I mention with "relaxin' Jackson" being it's name.
For doing this gig part time, getting college loans paid off (We're at $40,000 right now, plus next year), other semesters pay, etc etc. I think my fear is of being alone in boot cmap away from home. My friend tells me it isn't all that bad.
--CG
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Author: chuck
Date: 2004-03-17 00:21
Contragirl: I have the distinct impression that you need to be talking to someone other than your friend as to what contractual obligations you will be taking on. Some of us who have served in the armed forces as musicians will tell you that there is something called a "smell" test. What you are saying about "perks and bennies" in exchange for "laid back and part time" doesn't get a very good grade. Chuck
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-03-17 00:30
contragirl wrote:
> My friend says that the band has NEVER been put into active
> duty.
Which is really a meaningless statement.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-17 00:53
I would be really careful and go to the Resources people at the local recruitment centre...as to obligations like anything you really have to know what the job description requires before considering if it is something you really want.
There are numerous jobs in the Armed services, however, I personally think you need more background info.
David Dow
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Author: Francesca
Date: 2004-03-17 01:06
Contragirl,
I can't insist enough that you talk to a recruiter to get the full story on joining ANY military service. It won't be a cakewalk, I can guarantee that. Many of my friends joined the air force after high school. (BTW, they trained in Lackland AFB.) They too were lulled by the benefits you've mentioned. I've been to 2 funerals since I graduated, both for people who served their country from the "safety" of a military base. It's a dangerous world out there. Have all the information before making a decision like this. The military bands present wonderful opportunities for musicians, but when it comes down to it, your first role is still one of a soldier. Good luck with whatver you decide.
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-03-17 01:16
Contragirl...As a result of most of the responses so far, I hope you are seriously reconsidering the possible consequences of such a decision. It could be disastrous. You say: "I'm scared!!", and you should be! When you say: "Then I would miss my whole summer and my friends... then I would cry", I seriously wonder whether you are ready to be in a military environment. Furthermore, from all your previous posts I get the impression that you are a free spirit, which is also incompatible with the military attitude of unconditional conformance to regulations and "duty". Please don't tempt fate. As it is, the draft may be back soon and, this time, women may be as vulnerable as men! When that happens, you might still consider trying to get into the National Guard, as some prominent citizens have done in the past!
We all care for you. Good luck!
Henry
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Author: Tim P
Date: 2004-03-17 12:58
Check this site out and find out about the Army band returning from Iraq
http://www.bands.army.mil/default.asp
It is not unrealistic to be thinking ablut SAND and SUN.
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Author: Eppy
Date: 2004-03-18 04:46
Contragirl,
I am a military veteran with the 101st Airborne Division Band. I served in Desert Sheild/Storm and paid my dues. (First Band in the Sand!!!) You keep mentioning "Relaxin' Jackson" and boy do I have some news for you! I went to basic training at Fort Jackson. It was no cakewalk. Whoever is giving you this information is seriously misinformed about the place. I was there in 1989 and unless some things have changed drastically which I doubt, it isn't a place of relaxation.
ALL U.S soldiers regardless if National Guard, Reserves, or Regular Army go through the same basic training. Yes the perks are nice but the clarinet your friend got belongs to the U.S. government and will need to be returned more than likely. He has it checked out. We all had nice instruments. We also had whatever equipment we needed.
You need to ask yourself if you want to serve you country first and foremost. That is THE primary reason for going in. There are NEVER any guarantees that this group will stay inactive. In the militart, the only thing that is constant is CHANGE.
Think long and hard...Talk to many other people besides your friend. Gain the knowledge and make an educated and well thought out decision and one not taken lightly!
I am not saying the military is a bad way to go but you must go in with the right attitude and purpose and it isn't for everyone. Good luck!!!
Luanne
Is ALL that we see or seem but a dream within a dream?
Edgar Allan Poe
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