 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: katchow
Date: 2004-03-12 14:10
hello everyone,
i noticed the price of chromatic tuners are pretty cheap these days...
as a beginner, i thought it might be a good idea to practice my long tones along with a chromatic tuner...has anyone had any luck doing this? Do the tuners work all that well?
thanks for any info
kevin
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2004-03-12 14:27
Tuner's are always a good idea. I have been playing for over 45 yrs (yikes!) and I still keep my tuner on while practicing scales, etc and the music currently being performed. As a begginer, I developed a lot of bad habits regarding embouchure and articulation that might have been avoided with the help of a tuner. Back "then", tuners were big, impossible to carry around and expensive. Now they are small, portable and affordable--and should be considered as basic as the beginners first band book. I have a Korg chromatic that sits on my practice room desk and a Seko tuner/metronome that I carry in my clarinet case for "on the job" tuning help--and to double check the tempi choosen by my conductors.
(ducks again from baton thrown in his direction)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-03-12 14:50
The other thing you might want to try is to get some software (I use Mozart) that will play music you type in.
You can then type in your scales, studies, Nielsen concerto or whatever and play along with it. This is better than playing along with recordings because you can set it to any tempo you want. I find it much more effective than a metronome for rhythmic accuracy, too.
If you find playing in unison with it too easy, then type in a duet. Once you've learnt the notes, mute your part and play along with the other part.
The Mozart software can also import MIDI files, convert them to notation, and play them back. This would be more useful if there were more accurate MIDIs out there on the web - the ones I have tried tend to be full of mistakes.
There are drawbacks:
- It's equal temperament, but then so are most tuners. Frankly, I'd be happy enough if I were able to play in tune at equal temperament! Anyway, for playing with a piano it's equal temperament that you need.
- If done to excess, it makes you play too rigidly, but then so does a metronome
- If the computer volume is too loud, it can cover up your mistakes.
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2004-03-12 15:14
Personally I consider a tuner as necessary as a reed....
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: katchow
Date: 2004-03-12 15:31
great, thanks everyone...i'm always amazed at the quickness and kindness of the people on this board...you guys rock
i've been looking at the Sabine MetroTune MT9000 (no relation to the 'Sabine' at least not that i know of)...little over 30 bucks and has a metronome and tuner built-in, and a lcd screen...looks pretty good.
As far as software...i've been using Melody Assistant (Mac OS X) for awhile now...i love it! It does essentially what you were talking about. I use sometimes when i'm having a hard time getting the hang of the rythmn in one of my clarinet lessons...just punch it in and play-along however slow i need it...also, i can record my clarinet playing along with a piano part (all in the same file) geez, i love technology
thanks again
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-12 17:16
A chromatic tuner that works well is a real neccissity for a beginner clarinetist in my opinion.
This is mainly because it allows a student to hear and see just how much the embouchure and the reed can affect the tuning of a given note.
As an exercise I find the open g to be the note the most flexible...so work on getting the note exactly centred at 440 ....this will help identify the intonation of the chalumeau....
especially the open throat notes....
This also leads to finding alternative fingerings which opens up an entire new world of tonal shadings etc....
these come in handy when playing nasty unisons with brass or in octaves with lower members of any ensemble.
Another fine exercise and I feel its one few teacher's do not use enough, is to tune the clarion C by using the sound from the machine...
while the machine plays the C then play the lower 12th below and match the pitch of the 12th harmonic as accurately as possible..
.this is a real boom for it helps the player identify just how much embouchure flexibility can have over the sound.
It also gives you more overtones and focus on the pitch...and leads to a tangy warmer sound...
David Dow
Post Edited (2004-03-12 17:19)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jim S.
Date: 2004-03-12 17:21
But remember that you can be as much as 20+ cents "wrong" by slavishly following equal temperament rather than trusting your ear in certain melodic progressions and ensemble situations. Develop flexibility, listen, and trust your musicality. Also, most people can't hear 5 cents difference in pitch.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-12 17:40
The idea is to hear the overtones of this exercise...not to be a slave to being in tune!!
So few people understand the concept of the harmonic series and its pertinence to tuning./
When one hears the overtones wobbling then the embouchure must correct the pitch!...nuff said.
David Dow
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: katchow
Date: 2004-03-12 17:50
thanks for all the suggestions...i started thinking about this because i noticed i was playing a few notes off by a little...the thing was i wasn't always good about catching it while i was playing, but when i would play back my recording i would be sickened by a few flat notes...
i guess i'm still trying to adjust my ears for being in tune on clarinet...i use to play guitar, and i always knew instantly if my pitch was off...for some reason i could hear the vibrations much easier...
i guess it just takes time to develop. sometimes i wonder how much it has to do with my pretty cheap-student clarinet (though, i know thats not really an excuse).
kevin
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-12 17:58
You would be surprised how sensitive orchestral players are to even less than 5 cents in pitch...
add to this the difficult nature of tuning with strings and I would not hesititate to say most orchestral players play most things dead on at 440 or pretty close excepting the areas of the instrument they play that are difficult to tune...
these are usually the extremes of the range.
For example on flute the altissimo is usually quite sharp...on clarinet the inverse.
On bassoon alot of notes are quite low, for example the low Eb below the clarinet chalumea f...there are a number of notes on the upper register that are drastically low and need to be humoured.
So...how does this relate to tone and to tuning? It is very simple...in order to be a professional someday a clarinetist at a young age must learn to adapt the pitch...
and change the pitch without any big to do...
In orchestra a number of unisons with certain winds can be very tricky...for example certain clarinet and piccolo duets are very tough..these are as much about blend and tuning
....and this is when both players have excellent tuning!!
.then you can get into nuance and tonal colous only when you have an excellent command of pitch flexibility....there is also a danger of thinking once you play in the centre of a note you are always correct.
orchestrally speaking.... in a number of cases one has to also be able to play some sounds lower than you normally associate with in a normal setting.
The low d and c on the Oboe are in frequent
unisions..
this means being able to bring some of the high chalumeau clarinet notes downward!
Also, a good performer has to be able to express to section mates and other principal players there feelings about just how far one can take a note.
Several examples of this exist in the literature.
Letter C of La Forza del Destino (Verdi) Overture..letter C
occurs:
a unison figure for clarinet oboe and flute which means the concert low D in the chalumuea has to be brought downward..on the A clarinet it is an F...
So few clarinetists realize how important knowing the tendencies of the instrument is that it becomes a detriment to career development.
Then... on top of this add the fact the A clarinet may tune quite different from the Bb and you must develop a sensitivity to the way the clarinet(s)tunes and plays!!
Just did an entire series of concerts...tired as usual
David Dow
Post Edited (2004-03-12 18:06)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: davor
Date: 2004-03-14 23:02
If you are serious you should have a tuner and a metronome aswell.
Most of the stuff is produced in China nowadays.
I have had bad luck with Seiko, and have switched to Korg about 3 years ago. The CA 20 tuner is still working. There is a CA 30 new model on the market. There are plenty of cheap no name devices on the market. Beware!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: katchow
Date: 2004-03-15 13:13
well, i picked up a korg over the weekend...
i'm starting to think ingnorance was bliss
i tune to my middle c - actually its pretty close to dead on without pulling out the barrel...just a little sharp. But when i move higher up the scale my notes are flat (by about 20 cents)...i can't put my barrell in any further. It feels like a far way to go with my embouchure...maybe i just need some more practice...
kevin
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-03-15 15:28
It may be you, or it may be a mismatch between the clarinet and the mouthpiece. What happens as you go over the break? If throat G, Ab, A, Bb are progressively flatter and your long Bnatural is OK, then I'd be inclined to suspect the mouthpiece.
Though it could still be you. You need to use lots of air, and you should establish each note to your own satisfaction before you look at the tuner.
You say you have a "pretty cheap student clarinet" ... What, exactly?
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: katchow
Date: 2004-03-15 16:07
this may sound silly...but i can't remember what kind of clarinet i have (beginner in all aspects)...
i'll have to check when i get home. I did however buy i Clarke W Fobes Debut Bb Clarinet Clarinet mouthpiece...its the 27.00 student model (great price), which improved my tone quite a bit, but i never really thought about what pitch difference it might make...
kevin
oh, thanks for all the advice
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-15 16:27
Usually the throat register is an area of sharpness for most beginners and students..
.so I doubt this would affect the long B in any way whatsoever....
Instead, seen the guidance of a trained professional!!...
Remember the embouchure has a far more subtle control over pitch than you think. Its easy to voice the sound as far as 5 to 1o cents, + or - either way.
Seek the middle ground.
Always remember if you pull out the barrell too much this will affect some notes more adversely than others...remember to strive for an even clear sound.
Slightly sharp chalumeau notes can be brought down through the embouchure...always remember no one wants the upper clarion to be flat. This is the register that sounds worst if it is tuned low.
David Dow
Principal Clarinet
Symphony NB
David Dow
Post Edited (2004-03-15 16:30)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-15 16:39
Another excellent thing to work on with a chromatic tuner is simply having the A sound and work on getting the overtones of the low B(concert A) to tune in the octaves.
Learning how to listen is what music is about.
David Dow
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-15 17:03
A few words which after careful thought, I would like to add on this subject:
A private teacher is the person to teach the aesthetics of good sound!
A chromatic tuner is a tool...it can serve to elighten aspects of how you play.
Good tone is allied to good tuning. These elements must start from the beginnning. Too many players fuddle for years over these things when a teacher can directly entrench good playing habits from the outset....no matter the age.
Trust in the knowledge of a fine professional player/teacher.
Advice is advice only until someone can back it up with proof! What and how you play directly is affected by the knowledge you have first hand. Producing a sound is not a simple matter....good teachers know the direct way to impart knowledge and also teach a clarinetist the difference!
A chromatic tuner will inform you to the pitch...not how to produce it.
Listen to fine performers and emulate their sound/ and or integrity of approach. A metronome is a tool as well...this will not teach things about rubato or following a conductor etc.
The beginner stage is the most important! Don't think you can learn anything by teaching yourself....there are very very few gifted self taught players. Those who think they can(teach themself) usually are egomaniacs.
David Dow
Post Edited (2004-03-15 19:04)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: katchow
Date: 2004-03-15 18:08
i don't know if i mentioned...i do take lessons...once a week for about 8 mo. now. We haven't delved too deep into fine-tuning my pitch yet...i just thought it couldn't hurt to spend a little time with a tuner....
i don't know if your post was directed to me, but it is sound advice at any rate...
kevin
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-15 19:02
Dear Kevin:
Take your time and learn things at your pace.
At this moment in your development be sure to enjoy how you play and don't be too worried about fine-tuning every note.
You have all the time in the world..
Best wishes
David Dow
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: katchow
Date: 2004-03-15 20:27
thanks david,
i have really enjoyed playing so far...and every little improvement i make (no matter how small) has really kept me motivated...
i see what you mean though, i am often too critical of my playing...i think a lot of it is because i've been listening to great music (classical and jazz) and great clarinetists for years...and have really developed a taste for what "good" playing sounds like...which sometimes makes me cringe to listen to my own playing. I've never found it (so far) to be overwhelming. I usually just take a moment to remind myself that not too long ago i couldn't even play a high C.
or i'll play a couple scales and think "isn't it crazy how my fingers are falling into place without even really thinking about it..."
thanks again everbody for all the input
kevin
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Francesca
Date: 2004-03-15 23:10
When you're ready for the next step, tune to a sustained pitch, preferably a sound wave. You'll be amazed to find that a perfectly in tune C can sound horrendous, depending on it's role in the scale. For example, a major third should be flattened slightly. A minor third should be raised. That's the exercise I'm working on right now. Sounds like you're doing quite well as a beginner. Keep up the good work!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
