 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-03-11 10:01
Hi everyone
I'm in the middle of my college performance degree and the fact that this is not what I'm meant to be doing has been on my mind for a long time. The people around me love what they do, they practise heaps and are so enthusiastic about it.
On the other hand, I'm always thinking of something else I'd like to be doing, I don't feel guilty at all when I don't practise the 'minimum' every day, and success in music isn't my top priority. However, I don't know what my top priority is - I just know that music, at this level, isn't doing for me what it should be.
When I was younger I always wanted to be a 'professional' - i.e orchestral musician. I'd drilled this into my head so much that it hasn't occurred to me until recently that it doesn't have to be this way. I've been pushing myself in a direction that I didn't know any better but to go in.
I feel stressed for no reason, I lose sleep, I lack self-esteem and this all effects my life- from ongoing physical problems (which my doctor says is caused by stress) to depression to loneliness because of these self-esteem problems.
Of course I've spoken to my teacher and we agreed that I should at least complete my course, there's under 2 years left and I tried for so long to get into it in the first place. How can I alter my attitude for the duration of this course to get the most out of it, bearing in mind that I don't really want to do this anymore?
For teachers or anyone who knows: when do you know it's time for a student to pack it all in and call it a day? What are the signs?
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-03-11 10:38
Every student in every subject goes through this.
I read biology at uni. I don't do biology for a living. I didn't enjoy every moment of my degree, far from it. But the experience of being at uni was (mostly) very enjoyable, and I like to think that the intellectual training did me some good.
So when you feel fed up with music, think to yourself, would I really be happier if I was painting, or solving equations, or dissecting rats, or reading Tolstoy, or whatever else you might have done at college.
No need to be jealous of fellow students, either. There were plenty of people at college more dedicated to their studies than I was. Have they ended up with happier careers and happier marriages and happier bank managers than me? I bet a lot of them haven't.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2004-03-11 11:41
LeWhite,
One of the great things about colleges and universities is that, while you are there, you have an opportunity to explore a wide range of interests to find just what it is you want to do with your life. Many students change their course of study as they grow, mature and find new opportunities they weren't aware of when they were younger. As they progress in their studies to an advanced level - from algebra to advanced calculus, from elementary accounting to advanced, from Stamitz to Ferneyhough - most experience some self-doubt along the way but some also come to realize that they don't have the interest (or, in some cases, aptitude) to master the complexities of the field they find themselves in. Soul searching such as you are going through now is a natural occurrence. As a university professor, I see it frequently.
I think the first question you must sort out is whether you are going through a temporary phase of self-doubt or whether you have come to a permanent realization. If the former, it's important to find that out so that you can put it behind you. If the latter, waiting 2 years to begin planning a transition to another field is probably too long. Your teacher obviously sees talent in you or s/he would not be recommending that you continue your course. But your teacher may not be the best person to advise you. Your school should have some central counseling/career advising professionals who are trained to provide guidance in situations like yours. I can't stress enough how important it is that you talk to them. They can help you sort out your feelings, discover your aptitudes and explore career choices. You may find that you are fine where you are (though the symptoms you describe suggest otherwise). It may be, however, that you want a major shift (e.g., to engineering or history or literature, or business) or it may be that you only need a minor adjustment (e.g., to music therapy or music education or music business). Finding out requires face-to-face work with a trained professional. While you will likely hear some personal stories and general advice from the members of this board, keep in mind that, because of the limited contact we have with you, they may not be relevant to your specific situation. Good luck in your search.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-03-11 13:47
As one who has "enjoyed" a chaotic carreer, I can appreciate your feelings.
A career has a lot in common with marriage. After the initial glow wears off, the effort demanded by the situation shows up as a big surprise, The work may become drudgery, and the question of "what am I doing here?" arises.
As David writes, this is a common experience for just about everyone. Unfortunately, some who experience these feelings in marriage think they would be better off selecting another spouse before dumping the old one. Nothing could be further from the truth. To do that is to make an important decision while in emotional turmoil, and this cannot be expected to provide positive returns. Likewise, don't have thoughts of "what will I do nest?" running through your mind. Such will only dilute your efforts and help to ensure failure. Do not be afraid to experience a period of "floating," so long as you have some sort of schedule to find a different career path. Careful, though: some take time off to "find themselves" and never find anything.
I suggest you approach what you are now doing as a job. Go to "work," follow the schedule, and do not harbor any thoughts that you are wasting your time. You are not, and this is true even if you leave the field you selected earlier. I also suggest you seek some personal counseling throgh this rough time. This may help a lot, and the only way to be sure it won't is to avoid it.
Life was not designed to be fair.
Regards,
John
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Author: William
Date: 2004-03-11 14:17
How much is enough?? Personally, I've never assigned a specific time to this question but rather have follwed this guideline: "Practice as long as it takes to play what you want to--and *how* you want to". Meet your own agenda and be willing to do what is necessary in the practice room--no more and no less. With practice, it is quality that is important, rather than quantity. Why spend six hours a day in the "woodshed"--and pretend to be delirously happy doing it--if you can be just as good spending only two? It is what comes out of your clarinet that justifies the quality of your practice, not the hours on your practice sheet.
Practice--"Just do it"--as long as it takes. Simple as that.
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2004-03-11 14:55
LeWhite, thanks for being so honest. I think the advice you have received here so far is all quite good. And yet some of it conflicts. That's because there is no absolutely correct answer for your dilimma. Many students have feelings like yours, and as you observe, many seem not to have feelings like you. When I was in college, I always felt different, less dedicated, less deserving to be there, because of feelings like yours.
This is what I've learned about myself, and I think it leads to good advice to younger people. Whatever you are doing well, will be good for you in your future. Whichever path you take, you can do good for yourself and for the world. You as a person might be more introspective than most. Try to not eat yourself up; play good clarinet as a pro or as an amateur, whichever you choose; and if you change course, work hard at it, do well, and don't be surprised if you have doupts about the new course eventually, also.
One more thing, remember you are comparing your inside feelings to the outside appearance of the other students. If you could know their inside feelings, you would know that you are not that different.
Wayne T.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-03-11 15:59
I had a semi-nervous-breakdown the other day to that effect. I was under a lot of stress and had an "I hate all new music!" episode. As a composer, that's not generally a good thing to say. Oddly enough, after getting it out of my system, I was perfectly delighted to listen to just about anything a few days later (even Stockhausen!
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-03-12 00:01
Thanks everyone. It's so hard to *really* talk to my fellow students about these sorts of deep things, I feel like an outsider and it would be almost too rude to even ask.
One of my colleagues just got casual work playing the Rite of Spring with Sydney Symphony in the horn section! How do I compete with that?! It's not a matter of 'competing' at all, it's just that she's younger than me and has a lot to show for what she's doing, and I have basically nothing. The other clarinetists my age are getting into Australian Youth Orchestra and going overseas, and here's me, doing practically nothing. And I think that it's because, deep down, I really don't want to.
The reason I feel I have to complete my course is that I started my degree elsewhere, didn't like the course so I left, and am now where I am - and it would look very bad in general if I pulled out of 2 Bachelor of Music's in a row. At least this way I can have my degree and know that I got through it. My teacher said we'll re-assess my situation at the end of it, but I can't stand the thought of my fate resting upon how I do now, like in 2 year's time there's this huge blank all of a sudden.
But I think it would be wise to do just that - sit tight and finish this course, to my own personal standards, not to what everyone else is doing.
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-03-12 00:27
Rather than making a change just to get away from something that you no longer find intrinsically motivating, it is much better to be pulled towards something that you really want to do .
If you don't have another interest that you feel is pulling you, then IMO it is best to make no change until you find it, or it finds you.
Hans
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-03-12 00:33
Lewhite ... my honest advice to you is, complete your degree ... then if you REALLY decide it's not "your thing" you can always study something else as a graduate student (far easier than completing a new degree from scratch).
Don't despair, don't let this get to you too much and try and be positive about where you want to head ... take a sheet of paper, write "pros and cons" down two sides and then go for it ... you might just find music sitting fairly high up on the pros side anyways.
take care mate
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-03-12 12:52
LeWhite,
I just had a student come to his own realization just a couple weeks ago after auditioning at one of the more prestigious conservatory programs here in the States. I knew he wasn't up to the challenge but also knew that he is a bright kid and would come to his own conclusion once he immersed himself in the audition process. My job as his teacher was to show him how far he was from his goal and how much work he had to do to achieve it. He decided that music was a fine personal pursuit, but his career efforts were better directed elsewhere.
My point is this -- the music business has its own Darwinian qualities. Only the fit survive. Fitness isn't about just technical or artistic ability. There also has to be patience, drive, sometimes politics, a certain amount of ego, and the ability to jump up when knocked down. If you have gotten a taste of the real world and don't like it, and believe me university is a dawdle compared to what you will face, now would be a good time to make a switch. It is a lot harder to change career direction when applying for graduate programs or jobs than it is between your second and third years of college.
Good for you that you came to this level of understanding on your own. Let music be an important part of who you are and a source of enjoyment. Find your true calling elsewhere. If music is really the essence of who you are, you'll realize that and come back to it in the end, but without the angst you seem to be suffering from now. Good luck.
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Author: Brandon
Date: 2004-03-12 13:04
Do not think that flipping between colleges is that uncommon. I too have a performance degree, but am no longer in the field. I told myself that holing myself in a practice room was not the way I wanted to go. As far as changing schools, many people I know would flip flop between some of the high end conservatories. A pianist might begin at Juilliard and go to CCM, or vice versa. Its not one or two people like you would think. Places of higher ed do not care if you leave. They are more concerned about getting the money out of you. So in those regards, someone else would step in and pay. No hurt feelings on their part.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-03-12 13:37
Brandon - places of higher education may not care, but employers will.
I can't speak for the music business nor for the USA, but I know a bit about graduate recruitment in the UK, and I'd guess Oz is more similar to the UK than to the USA.
Prospective employers look askance at people who have changed college and/or course. They see it as evidence that you have no staying power, that you will run away from adversity. You may think this is unfair, but it is the way it is. I have watched my wife, who is a professional recruiter, reading c.v.s. She doesn't have an hour to spend on each one, looking beneath the surface, trying to understand what might make that person tick. If she sees one thing on a c.v. that she doesn't like, it's rejected. With hundreds of c.v.s for one job, that's just the way it has to be.
LeWhite, if you think your career won't be in music, what you need to do is to get a respectable degree that will impress a prospective employer. An employer won't care whether you were the best clarinet player in your college, or whether you are tone deaf with two left thumbs. He'll care whether or not you can knuckle down and do a job of work, even if you don't enjoy every minute of it. He'll also care whether you get on with people, can organise, can give presentations, can write coherently... plenty of other areas where you can build your capabilities now, regardless of the subject of your degree.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-03-12 15:29
Two more years is not much in a whole lifetime. Don't give up, stick it out and maybe you will eventually even decide that music is your life afterall.
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Author: Amy
Date: 2004-03-12 15:51
If you are suffering from depression then that may be one of the reasons you are not inclined to practice.
Just a thought (although I do speak from experience).
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Author: paulwl
Date: 2004-03-13 01:04
(David Peacham) >> You may think this is unfair, but it is the way it is. <<
Sometimes "the way it is" IS unfair. No contradiction there at all.
>> I have watched my wife, who is a professional recruiter, reading c.v.s. She doesn't have an hour to spend on each one, looking beneath the surface, trying to understand what might make that person tick. <<
Do you really need an hour? How much time does she spend? A minute? 30 seconds? 10? I mean nothing personal here, I suspect it's just the standards of the industry. They need someone they don't have to get to know at all.
Do you see what we're up against here? At least the rat race used to be equal-opportunity. People changed careers all the time. Nowadays you make one unusual choice and spend a lifetime paying for it. Makes the grey flannel organization-man days of the 1950s look like a piece of cake.
<$.02>
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Author: Mark Charette ★2017
Date: 2004-03-13 01:15
paulwl wrote:
> Nowadays you make one unusual choice and spend a lifetime
> paying for it.
Personally I think that's a bunch of BS. I've made a few "unusual" career choices, some very recently, some far in the past, and I've yet to pay more than a year or two for the choice - far from a lifetime. And I'm not unusual. I've not been convicted of any felonies, though - that choice does last a lifetime.
I, too, have had to read through many resumes to select those few we'll actually interview. The ones that are thrown out normally are done so in less than a minute for various reasons, but the major ones:
Misspellings and/or bad grammar (not fatal in casual communications, but the kiss of death on a resume)
Not reading instructions (if it says a cover letter & not more than 2 pages, that's what it means ...)
Not meeting the minimum qualifications without a quick explanation (if you're 2 credits away from a required degree, perhaps ...)
Time missing (any gaps in your work history must be explained)
Triage is necessary when filling positions since the number of applicants far exceeds the number of positions.
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Author: paulwl
Date: 2004-03-13 01:59
>> I, too, have had to read through many resumes to select those few we'll actually interview. The ones that are thrown out normally are done so in less than a minute for various reasons <<
I think that says a lot right there...Back during the gogo days of .coms, the venture capitalists would set up meetings. Anybody who couldn't impress them in 2 minutes or less was shown the street. Anybody who lost his shirt on startup tech stocks can tell you what kind of sound, wise, long-run decision-making that encouraged.
Anyway, those days are gone, but the business model remains. We're headed for a jobless economy. If the next boom is kicked off by some loser who couldn't get a break because his resume wasn't cut to this year's fashions, I'm going to laugh till I split my sides.
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Author: Mark Charette ★2017
Date: 2004-03-13 02:13
paulwl wrote:
> Anyway, those days are gone, but the business model remains.
Sheesh.
I've been reading resumes for the last 25 years. It's been that way for at least that long.
First impressions count.
People who don't fit into whatever "mold" that the corporate world imposes (or at least the part of the world that thinks a resumé might be a good starting point) normally do something different, like start their own business.
I've helped found 4 businesses. 3 survive to this day. I thought that resumés weren't all that important. I've found out otherwise.
Have you experienced the "pleasure" of wading through 400 of them? Half of which look like the writer barely made it out of 10th grade? What would you do?
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Author: paulwl
Date: 2004-03-13 10:23
I honestly hope I never find out. I'd probably be carpeting the floor with the careers of people just like me or better. I've likely lost out on more than one good opportunity because I did take the time to explain the gaps on my resume – time spent working for myself and/or playing music.
Maybe I'm not god's gift to human resources, but it's my (more or less) considered opinion that a lot of good places to work would sooner hire a bright-eyed cluck who won't stir things up than an independent type who might have more to offer. And at some point or another, every independent type is going to need to swing through the resume jungle. I know I will again, one of these days, and I know it ain't gonna be a life-enriching experience. Being told no for no good reason stays with you longer than when there is a good reason.
Speaking of enough is enough...I need my coffee and my clarinet. Early Saturday morning is a good time to play if there's no one around to wake up.
Post Edited (2004-03-13 10:28)
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-03-13 10:49
My personal specialty seems to be the making of unusual choices. Changing career paths now and then is stimulating to me.
Mark, congratulations on getting so many nice resunes. If only half seem to have been prepared by applicants who never completed secondary school, you're doing rather well. Seems as if so many just don't understand what work really is, plus they don't have sufficient intrinsic motivation to find out.
LeWhite, I strongly agree with your fellow countryman diz that completing a bachelor's degree in almost any field need not adversely affect your life. Seeking a higher degree in an entirely different field is not uncommon.
Regards,
John
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Author: Michael G
Date: 2004-03-13 10:51
Knowing the VCA and what it can do to people who start off as enthusiastic young players with the world at their doorstep and then graduate without any incling to ever pick up an instrument again I would strongly suggest you get out while you still can. Take a break year, or semester. Just get out and see the real world and then go back when you are ready. The VCA is such an instense institution where it is either all or nothing most of the time, I know many people who have taken time out from there and come back better for the experience.
Melbourne and Australia are wonderful places and you should get out and see them and get your spark back if you feel like this at the VCA. A place like that requires a very thick skin, often like this board, and some times even the best players and students can get warn down.
Also remember it is in your teachers best interest to keep you as a student, ie they get paid if they teach you!
Best of luck with your decision....
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-03-13 11:06
Thanks Michael G, and how did you know where I am?
Anyway, you're completely correct about the VCA, there's a lot of snobbery and heirachy and trying my best to keep away from it probably doesn't help my case! If anything I should be in there trying to get in the orchestra conductors 'good books' or something, I constantly get put on bass or Eb!
After speaking with family members, one said "Just do your best and it'll all work out in the end" and I think she's right.
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Author: paulwl
Date: 2004-03-13 16:29
(JMcAulay) >> Seems as if so many just don't understand what work really is <<
(LeWhite) >> "Just do your best and it'll all work out in the end" <<
What do you think, John? Is he close? I think he is.
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Author: emylooa
Date: 2004-03-13 23:54
LeWhite,
Am not a pro musician, but just a nurse. (I read this website because I play in a concert band part-time and it is very helpful and insightful.) Thought perhaps an "outsider" insight might help....
I wanted to be a nurse since the age of 5, but when I went to college, it was quite different from my "ideal picture" of what nursing should be (spare you the details). I did hit a wall there in the second year, and wondered if it was such a hot idea to go through with it. But I hung in there, and its been a fine career for 18 years. On the other hand, there were people in my class who swore this was the real McCoy for them and ditched nursing right at the end of the degree! I think the choices we make in life are as unique as we are as individuals. I don't know whether anyone can tell you for sure what is happening with you. We don't know your life and we don't know your mind. We don't know your needs and your aspirations. Only you can know these. This is what makes you an adult--making all these nifty decisions that no one can make for you, and by golly, they keep right on coming! But, this is why life is so exciting and neato! You have so MANY options, don't you believe for one second that you do not! If you can afford the time and effort it takes, perhaps you might take a semester away from music to see where that leads you? I had to do that two years ago, and it was worthwhile in deciding I still wanted this career. Whatever you decide will be right for YOU. Have faith and trust yourself! Best wishes :-)
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2004-03-14 03:29
Hi, LeWhite:
I'm a college teacher. One thing I've learned "ties in" with some of the advice the others have given you. The degree represents the fact that you can finish something you started. It also shows you have been "educated" which means you have gained some expertise in one thing and also been introduced to a "well rounded" set of other disciplines and types of skills and knowledge. Finally, the degree shows you "know how to learn;" you are "trainable" and can finish what you start!
Many people end up doing something entirely different from their majors. You can't predict what will happen. Whatever it will be will amaze and delight you! Keep an open mind, but try to finish something you can stand doing. You must have liked music, so enjoy it! Don't worry about being the best; just be the best YOU can be (whatever that is). We all don't end up being the king or queen! :-)
Do seek help with your depression, but hang in and DO NOT BEAT YOURSELF UP! You are a beautiful, unique person, and I know anyone on this list would be proud to know you!
Good luck.
Kalakos
John Pappas
Degree in English literature (but I taught college level Greek civilization, coached college varsity soccer, taught adapted PE, and now teach English and folklore; who'd 'a thought it?)
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2004-03-14 05:48
LeWhite,
Do what you feel you need to do. I've had a few friends who have decided that music ed/performance was not for them at varying times in their college education. A degree is a degree. People go into college thinking that they may know what they want to do. Many people change their views of what they want to do because of things learned in higher education. Not everyone is meant to be a performance major. Not everyone is meant to be a teacher, and so on. College/University is a time of self-exploration. Only through experience can we find out exactly what it is we want ourselves to be or to do. This is a big reason why colleges/univerities have a "general studies" requirement that everyone must fulfill.
I will say this. There was a time in my college career that I took a month off of studies. I was burned out with what I was doing and needed to find myself. I did as little as I could to get by. During this time, I spent a lot of time "soul searching" and found that I was doing the right thing. Many of my family members had placed seeds of doubt in my head and I needed to sort them out to find the truth for me. Most of my professors were VERY understanding and supported me through this ordeal. They knew this was a time of conflict and helped me through it. Support is a must in this situation. Find people who you trust and talk to them about it. Having a talent in a particular field does not always mean that you should continue in that field. Everyone has multiple talents and they can all be cultivated.
I happened to stay in the field of Music Education and have never regretted it. I love what I do. I may never make six figures doing what I do, but I LOVE what I do. I'm happy. I don't think twice about it.
Find what you are passionate about and do it. That is the underlying thing that my friends/mentors/father told me to do. I have never regretted it.
People find their "passion" at different times in their lives. Time is not always a luxury, but sometimes a necessity. Talk to people and discuss. You will eventually find your "passion" for a career.
-pat
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Author: Taxijazz
Date: 2004-03-15 11:12
It sounds like you already 'packed it all in', and are sufferring from a disorder that should be evaluated by a different doctor. There are many causes of depression, but the problem can be serious and you shouldn't be afraid of consulting a mental health professional.
Sometimes too much engagement with a musical instrument might result in depression just because you stop playing. And stress occurs when we feel that we aren't in control of our lives. When we chase an illusion and that thought becomes empty it can be a very lonely place, and it's time to re-evaluate our direction, but we should let go of our previous engagements gracefully.
Did you ever enjoy playing? What was that like? How could you go there again and look at it differently so it fits with a new adventure? It is harmful to anyone to get throughly engaged in something--and just stop. Can you integrate playing an instrument with some new interest in a way that it might be a break from what you really want to do rather than a burden? Can you make it a hobby, or do it in a new way to make it more enjoyable?
As far as college education goes the process is more important than the content, so you might consider that completing your 'job' of playing IS the means to something else.
Use a piece of paper to brainstorm your desired goals and prioritize them. If you have a clear cut plan, and can visialize a goal that appeals to you, and have it all written down so it's clear to you-- sometimes that is enough to effectively deal with depression, stress, anxiety, and low self esteem. When you know what you are doing and how you are going to get there, and you can see yourself making progress--How then could you have low self-esteem? Or be depressed?
Take slow deep breaths and try to relax and clear your mind. Imagine that your problem is in the process of being solved as the sheet of paper sits in front of you. Write it all down and make it clear to yourself after you have considered all of your desired options this way.
On the other hand-- disregard all of my advise because the problem may have become serious enough that you should have anti-depressants or other medication to help you get through this period. That's why I suggested another doctor. You need to consult a professional--Your problem is not uncommon, but you'll get through it. Don't cheat yourself out of enjoying life, you just have to make a shift and do it gracefully. If you are suffering from depression, losing sleep, and have low self esteem--That's serious if it has been going on for very long. It can easily be dealt with.
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Author: Michael G
Date: 2004-03-15 15:13
You really want to have to suck up to Marco and others in those positions mate? Sometimes it is best to just sit back and say, 'hey I don't need this crap!'
Cheers,
Michael
(I know as I have too many mates went there, oh and I went there in one way or another for a few years ages ago.)
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Author: Michael G
Date: 2004-03-15 15:14
You really want to have to suck up to Marco and others in those positions mate?
Sometimes it is best to just sit back and say, 'hey I don't need this crap!', especially at VCA!
Cheers,
Michael
(I know as I have too many mates went there, oh and I went there in one way or another for a few years ages ago.)
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-03-16 12:14
Guys please realise I'm really not depressed, just don't think this is what I want to do anymore.
I used to LOVE music and the clarinet, but now I don't think I could ever go back to simply enjoying it, as I'm very critical of my playing and unlike before, I now know just what makes good clarinet playing good and know that I simply can't do it.
There's hope yet; I feel like I could be so much better than what I am, I just need something to unlock it. Maybe I'm lazy and finding excuses, but I feel that if I was meant to be that good, I already would be. I've got 2 years left, which is going to be full of challenges, hard times, frustration, but I'll be really happy to finish.
Michael G, I have no intention of sucking up to Marco actually! I don't even suck up to my own teacher, I tell him what I think and I'm very lucky he's an open kind of person!
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-16 14:05
Quote:
I now know just what makes good clarinet playing good and know that I simply can't do it.
There's hope yet; I feel like I could be so much better than what I am, I just need something to unlock it. Maybe you've hit some plateau. Who knows? At some point during those two final years you may unkowingly jump up another level and begin to enjoy it again. Anyways, I'm glad you decided to finish the degree. It does show a lot on applications that you've studied and completed a degree. And if the employer's know anything about music, they might understand how dificult and how much time and dedication is needed to get a music degree is when compared to others. Good luck and keep us posted.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: paulwl
Date: 2004-03-16 15:30
If nothing else...the widely differing advice you've been getting in this thread will help you realize that there are no "one size fits all" answers to these questions. Everyone's journey is unique, no matter how universal they may want to make it appear (and I apologize in advance if I do the same below).
I've had my periods of burnout as well. I'll save you the details. They arose largely from being self-taught, going part-time pro, and my unrealistically high self-assessment falling to unrealistically low. I heard tough "Darwinian" talk from musicians and took it to heart. But it was nothing I could use. It just poisoned my mind against myself and my playing.
I started to get back into it only when I tuned the Darwinians out. Not their advice – good advice is good advice, but it sometimes comes with baggage. I began to listen to more positive players I knew and started setting that baggage aside. If told to practice "politics," I instead chose diplomacy. The goal of "ego" became one of self-esteem. "Drive" rediscovered its soul and became passion.
Through that I again realized the place that music really holds in my life. This is an ongoing process, by no means complete. Building on past progress, springing back from the inevitable setbacks, is becoming easier now that I have a better idea what I really want and need to achieve.
I'm not going to say "You have to want it bad enough," because that's usually a judgment that you don't, and no one can know that for you. (For instance, as with me, music may be your calling but not your living.) You need to find just WHAT "it" is that you want out of music, and how to find the place that is waiting for you in the real world of music. Keep us updated on how you're doing.
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2004-03-16 21:32
LeWeiß,
There is nothing wrong with a music degree. If someone has shown the discipline to master an instrument and all the music theory, it shows someone who is very disciplined. Unfortunately most people do not know what is involved in mastering a musical instrument. They think of it as a soft degree.
I believe that now that you've made a decision you should act on it sooner rather than later. Don't hold out for two more years. Decide where you have other talents or abilities and pursue education that is both fulfilling and lucrative. This way in old age you'll be happy and rich. It really is best to have both of these worlds. Don't settle for poverty, it ain't pretty.
Ron Jr.
Post Edited (2006-03-07 13:03)
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Author: Taxijazz
Date: 2004-03-18 07:40
Clarinet is a mean bitch that will try to elude you from time to time, and it can be too demanding-- for what good? Why bother? Artie Shaw was considered the greatest clarinetist in the world at a time and he made a lampstand out of the thing. That should tell you something.
Albert and Boehm clarinets represented advancements in technology, and now we have synthesizers, so the instrument really is unnessesary anymore.
If you want to have a symphony why not use authentic Mozart era clarinets?
Get a Chalumeux, and you might make your friends who still want to suffer with what you are getting sick of jealous. An alto Chalumeux is smaller than an Eb clarinet , and you can shift away from that evil thing you felt you had to cling to and still make music, and have fun with a new adventure while you re-evaluate your options.
Quit while you can if it bothers you. Clarinets have been a haven for sociopaths for a good part of the last century-- but now they have medication. If you aren't crazy yet don't let the thing drive you there.
Also there is such a correlation with woodwind instructors that there should be a special category in the DSM IV Axis II Personality Diorders.
So... Ebony wood will burn long and hot during a cold winter night and an R-13 may produce its most beautiful tone when you enjoy the crackling solo in your fireplace.
A guy saw me playing clarinet and he asked: "What the Hell are you playing that for? This isn't the 30s anymore". He had a point. If the instrument bothers you throw it in the river and recover your sanity before you get stuck.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-03-18 09:02
Sure taxijazz, I'm going to throw my clarinets into the river along with the $8000 I spent on them, suuuure!
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Author: Taxijazz
Date: 2004-03-18 21:39
Playing a clarinet was just a crazy thing for me to do after I lost a $95,000/yr job along with everything I owned after a divorce. And playing a clarinet IS a crazy thing to do unless you just like living in the past. If you sold your clarinets and bought some books on Aristotle you'd be better off--unless you just liked sticking something in your mouth all of the time and couldn't do without it. As much as music teachers might want to claim that the study leads to some employment opportunity--That started it's decline in 1929. For years I was a personnel manager for several large corporations, and if someone walked in with a degree in musicianship I wouldn't even look at their application. However, maybe some people might want to hire someone who worked hard wasting time, and that's what a degree in musicianship represents. Also-- good musicians often spend too much time on the wrong side of their brain and turn into assholes or drunks.
Actually, believe it or not, this degree might be good preparation for law school for your advanced degree. You would be surprised how many attorneys used to play the clarinet.
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Author: Taxijazz
Date: 2004-03-19 12:43
If you want to revive your interest just get a new mouthpiece, a few boxes of reeds and a velcro ligature; a new song, or trade some of your clarinets in on a sax for awhile.
But if you go to college for the purpose of employment and major in music it's a horrible choice unless there is absolutely nothing else you want to do. I could introduce you to musicians that are better than you might ever hope to be; musicians far better than any of your teachers in musicianship; musicians that toured the world, or played top billing at one time--And you'd be impressed, but to most people they are just bums with degrees, has beens if they ever did make it, and they got so involved that they neglected what they should have been doing. Former members of Janis Joplins Band, Charlie Musselwhite, Boz Skaggs, and several others, all with degrees drive taxicabs in San Francisco. Ask a SF taxidriver that speaks English and you'll be surprised how many have degrees in music or anthropology or something else that proves the fallacy that any degree leads to success--those days are over! These are studies you should do because you love the study, not because of some daydream that it will lead to something else. Of course 'any' degree can help you become a manager at MacDonalds or something like that. If you don't like what you do, you had better start something else now. Don't they have classes to teach you logic and cogent reasoning? That is where the real need for education is, because too many students graduate and still aren't capable of critical thinking. Many education experts are pushing hard, but there is such resistence that teacher play lip service to the demand, and what is supposed to be a critcal thinking excercise gets so watered down...But teachers just don't know what to do. Read J. Ellul, Neil Postman, or with the way things are I hate to think I'd have to recommend something as basic as Aristotle. Three speech classes are worth more than four years of musicianship study-- Unless all you want to do is be a musician. We don't have the type of affluent society that will tolerate the type of fooling around that worked just a few years ago.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-03-20 09:51
Thanks for the somewhat unprovoked respons(es) taxijazz.
While I know where you're coming from, if I know what's good for me I absoloutely must complete this degree.
Look at it this way - I go in for a 'real' job one day after I finish my degree, and I know them a piece of paper that states I withdrew from not one but TWO bachelor of music degrees. That wouldn't look good! But if they see that I withdrew from one, and succesfully completed another (Hopefully with honours), they'll know that I can see things through, have the discipline to do so, and I guess that I have the self-motivation that it took to do it all.
Still don't know whether this is what I want to do, however, since realising that I may not necessarily be doing much music after the next two years, my whole world has changed! I want to be in as many ensembles as I can and I want to play as much as I can, because this might be my last unhindered opporunity to do so! And I must say, because of this, I am sounding better every day (expecially with Baermann!!).
Anyone ever notice how easy something is if you don't HAVE to do it, or if there aren't any consequenses? I'm just going to play like there's no tomorrow, quite literally, for the next two years. Should be interesting.
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Author: Taxijazz
Date: 2004-03-20 13:45
I'll admit to you LeWhite, that it may be inappropriate to give advice or criticism to people you know nothing about, but my intent was really to find out more about you and the things you go through in life. I learned a lot and appreciate the interraction.
There is psychological testing available that helps people identify what they might really like to do--A job preference test. You have provided me with more evidence that such tests should be administered along with entrance exams for college, and I thank you for that too.
I can't impose my values on you, but I never HAVE to do anything, and most people feel they can't get away with that. For me it would be torture to force myself to do something I had no interest in for the pursuit of unknown consequences; for you it may be necessary.
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Author: Alyra
Date: 2004-03-21 01:25
Definately finish uni Lewhite..
Theres not much out there in the Australian employment now for those of us without tertiary education (which is why I'm now doing Library Studies externally to get somewhere in life!)
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2010-10-20 09:05
Man, what a great thread from wayback.
I wonder what happened to the original poster?
I post because I'm having similar concerns: I find it almost impossible to find (or make) the time required to practice to the level I'd like as an interested amateur, so I'm thinking about taking an extended (several years) 'sabbatical' from the instrument.
Also it makes me think of an anecdote: I once knew someone writing up a thesis (perhaps even doctoral) on World music. Her private opinion after all that work? 'It's all rubbish. There's a reason the Western Musical Tradition has taken over the world.' (Not my words, no flames please!)
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Author: kimber
Date: 2010-10-20 11:36
Never mind. I hate when crusty old posts are restarted.
Post Edited (2010-10-20 13:12)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-10-20 16:02
It's time to give it up when you don't enjoy it.
The inverse is that one must continue to play if one cannot live without it
SIMPLE
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2010-10-20 21:40
Interesting that this thread came up again!
I used to post as LeWhite, that's me. In 2011 I am going into my first professional job as principal clarinet in a major (and well-known) British military band. I am extremely lucky and proud to be entering the profession in this manner. I need to thank all who contributed to this thread again; I may not be at this stage without you!
Everything changed when I just RELAXED and got over myself. I did the rest of the degree MY way, and it turns out I inspired my peers and in turn was inspired by them, and looking back at the rest of my time studying, I would say it was a very special time. I hope that I changed something about the institution and it's attitude. My path was very different to those before me.
Something twigged at some point; a spark was re-lit and I haven't looked back.
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Author: donald
Date: 2010-10-20 21:47
Ha, that's funny- i'd forgotten you used to be "leWhite"! Your old Concerto beefer lives on, played by an amazing 16 year old who can play grade 8 stuff very accurately and musically without practising, but refuses to tongue on the reed...
congrats on the band job, you might meet a NZ link there in the bassoon section?
dn
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Author: Plonk
Date: 2010-10-21 09:39
Ah - always nice to see a happy ending! Good luck in your new job!
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2010-10-24 13:53
I'm glad you found yourself. I'm still looking.
I went into college hell-bent on an Accounting degree. I completed it, somehow. It took 5 years (almost 6 since I bombed a spring-only finance class twice and took it at RIT over the summer to transfer the credit and graduate). I started to absolutely hate the program in my junior year, but figured it would take forever to change degree programs and graduate. So, I loaded up on music theory and stuff to keep me partially happy while I plowed through the rest of the business stuff.
I went on to an MBA program, hoping I could find something there that would be similar to my undergrad degree, but I would be happier. That didn't happen. I completed the first semester and part of the next. I had doubts of it working when I was registering for my 2nd semester trying to decide between the lesser of evils for one of my classes (I was taking 3 grad classes per semester, but I was also taking lessons, band, and orchestra since I wanted to keep playing). After I dropped out of that program, I went back the next year as an undergrad and finished my music BA. Turns out that I only needed a year to finish the requisite classes since I took all the required theory and some other random stuff when I was in undergrad the first time. And, the music work in grad allowed me to meet the 2-year performance residence requirement to complete the BA (I didn't know about the 2-year thing until I filed for graduation and actually looked into if I met the requirements). The head of the department didn't think of this either, since when I met with her while I was still in grad school, she went over my transcript of what I was transferring in and said I would be done in a year.
So, I have both degrees. I currently don't have a job (Social Security Disability due to bipolar disorder and other co-morbid stuff), but I'm playing in a community orchestra (clarinet-II/utility; oh what fun), have been invited to play in 2 others (if I can scare up a ride), and am taking lessons the Eastman Community Music School (a less money than actual Eastman students are paying). I think part of finishing the 2nd degree was me trying to 'make up' for dropping out of grad school; the other part was that I really wanted it and screw it that a music degree is a so-called 'worthless degree'.
What I said in a bajillion words is that I'm glad it worked out!
Rachel
BS Accounting - SUNY Geneseo '03
BA Music - SUNY Oswego '05
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2010-10-24 18:48
This is all actually quite inspiring. Still don't know what to do, but it's inspiring
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Author: Bubalooy
Date: 2010-10-27 20:44
My philosophy is simple. If you're not happy, make changes. Continue to make changes until you're happy. When you are happy, don't worry about it.
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2010-10-27 22:00
Bubalooy wrote:
> My philosophy is simple. If you're not happy, make changes.
> Continue to make changes until you're happy. When you are
> happy, don't worry about it.
Well, happiness is also an attitude. Abigail Adams said something to the effect that our happiness depends more on our disposition than on our circumstances. Sure, some people are stuck in an unhappy rut, and in that case they should take your advice. Sometimes, though, working towards what will bring happiness in the future is a lot of work! Yes, all that slogging in the practice room can be a drag; it takes a longer view to determine whether following through will bring happiness later or whether you're really not in the right place.
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Author: emily_heathcote
Date: 2010-10-27 23:33
Its a very hard life.... to make it in the music world. If it's not entirely 100% what you want to do then quit while you're ahead. Most musicians only enter this profession because they're addicted to it.... no rational person would put bets on a career in music.
This could be said for all high-profile careers but somehow (and I am biased) music seems to be in a league of its own.
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Author: Bubalooy
Date: 2010-10-28 21:02
clarinetwife wrote:
"happiness is also an attitude."
..."all that slogging in the practice room can be a drag"
really? I find my time in the practice room to be some of my most enjoyable time. I find that how good I am isn't the point in if I feel happy or not but rather, am I getting better. I absolutely agree that happiness is more an attitude than circumstance, but if you aren't enjoying the process of getting where you are going, what makes you think you'll enjoy the destination? No , we don't have to walk into the practice room giddy everyday, but I can't imagine slogging through a career in music if you don't honestly like to practice.
It seems the original poster found an answer and came out in a good place for him, but I still maintain, if you aren't enjoying your life, you should make changes (sometimes that is things within, like attitude, more than things without) The philosophy is simple to state, but hard to live, as most people (including me sometimes) seem to be more afraid of change than of having an unhappy life.
I appreciate your consideration of the ideas.
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The Clarinet Pages
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