 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: atl4413
Date: 2004-03-08 20:54
Which do you perfer; practice; single or double lip, and why? Please be specific....
I don't prefer double, but I've had someone tell me that it's a must. Does it really make that much of a difference?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2004-03-08 21:46
Double lip because it's what I was first taught. Also, I find putting my teeth on the mp rather barbaric and also vibrationally uncomfortable
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: hans
Date: 2004-03-08 22:06
Double lip. Like BobD, I don't like the the vibration when I put my teeth on the mp - surely it can't be good for you.
Hans
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: chicagoclar
Date: 2004-03-08 22:25
double again. I find my sound is fuller and darker when I use double. The guy who sits next to me recently switched to double and definately sounds better. And I second the vibration comment.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom Piercy
Date: 2004-03-08 23:13
double lip... "it's a must" I don't think so.
Having said that -- I switched to double lip about 5 years ago under the very observant, careful and disciplined instruction of Kalmen Opperman. I have found it a better choice in my playing than single lip for many reasons. I highly recommend its use.
If you do a search here on the BBoard on double lip, you will find my comments and those of many others about the benefits, and some drawbacks, of double lip embouchure.
Tom Piercy
www.thomaspiercy.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2004-03-08 23:22
I play single and am regularly complemented on my tone. The double lip has the basic advantage of preventing the player from "biting" with his/her embouchure. Pain is a powerful disincentive you see. If you don't have problems with biting or pinching when playing single lip, there really is little advantage to going to the double lip.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bkmorton
Date: 2004-03-09 02:50
You would think that the double lip would offer a better vibration for the clarinet. Maybe even a darker sound, is that the case?
How do people play for long periods of time with double lip? Just curious. I had a teacher tell me that they switch on the basis of the passage. Double lip for slow melodic passages and vice versa
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: contragirl
Date: 2004-03-09 05:35
I use single lip and think I have a pretty good sound. But I have a question about that.
If I play for too long, I get bite marks in my bottom lip and it hurts. Some ppl use paper over their bottom teeth (or wax, plastic, etc). I tried paper, and got a better sound, but it disintegrates in my mouth. Yuck!
Does double lip help get rid of the biting problem on the bottom lip?
-contra
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-09 05:43
Quote:
Does double lip help get rid of the biting problem on the bottom lip? It helps with me! One way you can use double lip embouchure is to help 'train' yourself for a proper bite pressure. You shouldn't need to really clamp down on the reed in order to make a sound. It should be mostly the airstream making the reed vibrate. When you switch to double lip, you simply CAN'T bite down hard because your upper lip hasn't developed the callous that you lower one has. So it'll hurt. (Check out what Dee said in her above post).
So what you do is you play double lip for a few minutes. It'll force you to bite less and use more of an airstream than pinching the reed to get a sound. Then, when you switch BACK to singly lip, you should be able to use less pressure and still get the sound out. So double lip is a way to check yourself every now and then.
Alexi
PS - Single lip noise-maker here.
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ksclarinetgirl
Date: 2004-03-09 06:01
I played double lip for three years, and then my eighth grade band teacher told me to play single lip. To help with the vibrations, I've always used a Yamaha mpc. cushion that works well for me.
Stephanie :o)
"Vita Brevis, Ars Longa"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: allencole
Date: 2004-03-09 06:28
A number of sounds that I enjoy are ones that I suspect may be double-lipping. However, I have been very comfortable with single lip and seem to be doing okay with it. Also, I double--sometimes at high speed--and don't want to hurt myself during a 2-bar instrument change.
The primary contraindication for double-lipping seems less to be the embouchure itself, than the fact that a lot of folks don't practice enough to build a good embouchure.
Allen Cole
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bkmorton
Date: 2004-03-09 09:47
Who are some pros that played with double lip? I know Kalmen Opperman and Richard Stolzman, but who else?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-09 12:32
Shermann Friedland (I've read most of his articles and therefore know he did).
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Joel Clifton
Date: 2004-03-09 14:04
I used to souble lip, but my embochure was absolutely horrible. Somewhat similar to saxophone embochure, but more so. When I finally took lessons a year and a half ago I got that fixed, and I can't do the old way anymore. It's so comfortable, and my sound is much better. As for the pain, you don't have to live with it! Forget cigarette paper! This stuff is a must!
http://www.wwbw.com/Item/?itemno=83435
Before I used it, my lower lip got raw and sore all the time, but then my teacher gave me a piece to use, and I became addicted. I've never had any sort of pain since, no matter how much I play.
Read my review (the last one). It will hopefully help you use it to its fullest.
----------------
-------------
"You have to play just right to make dissonant music sound wrong in the right way"
Post Edited (2004-03-09 14:07)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mikeW
Date: 2004-03-09 19:30
Is there any sort of consensus on using stuff like cigarette paper or "lip ease" ?
On the one hand, I can see where it would cut down on the risk of biting into your lower lip if you have sharp teeth or if you are in a position where you just have to practice something beyond the point of embouchure fatigue. On the other hand, using it all the time seems like it could lead to an embouchure based on too much jaw pressure. And I wonder if, over time, such an embouchure could lead to nerve damage due to the pressure?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarmont
Date: 2004-03-09 19:48
some Pros who double lip:
Steven Hartmann
John Bruce Yeh
Thomas Piercy
Kalmen Opperman
Richard Stolztman
Ralph Maclean used double lip embouchure.
I'm sure there are many others.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: atl4413
Date: 2004-03-09 20:35
I tried really hard to use double when I was testing some reeds out. I couldn't get up to high A ( Reg, Thumb, 2nd & 3rd left fingers and left whisper key) when testing the pitch.
When you switch to double, is the embouchure something that you have to start working on again to develop your top lip muscles?
This may seem redundant, but if double is a must, then why don't all professionals use it?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2004-03-09 20:38
Marcellus experimented with double lip during the 1960 season. He later concluded that he had better articulation and sound with a single lip embouchure.
His historic Mozart Concerto recording was done in 1961, just after he went back to a single lip embouchure.
It is certainly possible that it had a few residual benefits which may have carried over to that particular recorded performance ...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom Piercy
Date: 2004-03-09 21:46
Dear at14413: Double lip is NOT a must. It is a preference.
The most noticable improvements I found when I switched:
more control over the types of tone colors I wanted;
articulations were easier;
large leaps -- up/down - back and forth -- MUCH easier to negotiate.
As usual, with the right combination of mouthpiece, reed, instrument, embouchure, air stream/support, tonal " imagination," the altissimo should not be a problem.
Yes, it takes a while to build up the different muscles for double lip, but after that time, it is easy to switch back to single lip if needed - and to switch back an forth when and if needed.
The "pain" that many write of was minimal for me and lasted for only a short time until the proper muscles were developed and I learned how to correctly use them.
Endurance has not been a problem after the initial learning process.
I felt I gained much by the switch and lost very little or nothing.
Not a must - a preference.
Tom Piercy
Tom Piercy
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: marzi
Date: 2004-03-10 01:31
i switched to double lip and now get compliments on my tone, also
my teeth appreciate it as they get more sensitive as i get older!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BSL
Date: 2004-03-10 01:55
Actually, Stoltzman uses only a partial double lip. It is the method Giggliotti taught, good diaphram support, and roll the upper lip against your teeth(not under the teeth as with the full double lip) to open the back of the throat.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-10 02:16
Quote:
Dear at14413: Double lip is NOT a must. It is a preference. Well said! Keep in mind that while we're looking at names of people who use double lip with success, NOT listed are all the others that use SINGLE lip to great success. So it is merely a preference.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-10 16:31
When I started the clarinet(1979) it was with double lip embouchure. After about 10 years of study I decided that the fatigue factor related to double lip was not for me...I work primarily as an orchestral player and also found that any jarring whatsoever had a negative effect on the air column.
I now use the single lip to much greater success than the double lip technique!!
Certainly it is much easier for me to balance the clarinet with the teeth on the mouthpiece than the lips. After much consultation with Harold Wright we began the slow process of changing my technique over to single lip. However, I do use double lip as a practice tool and find that it really helps in slow upper registerp pracitce that require the proper focus and funnelling of the air column. For younger players this can certainly illuminate alot of the torturous nature of providing signifigant insight into technique and deficiencies relating to air and lips.
David Dow
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: atl4413
Date: 2004-03-10 16:46
Thanks for all of the replies. I purchased "The Educator's Guide To The Clarinet" by Mr. Ridenour, and until last night had not cracked it open.
There is a section in this book on double lip embouchure. I read it and was very enlightened as to his reasons for suggesting the use of it. He details (with drawings) the incorrect double lip methods as well as the correct method.
I find it all very fascinating. So far, I have to say that I really like the book because he gets into the nitty gritty - not just the hows, but the whys. I'm a "why" kind of person, very much so, and very pedantic. But, it's not "weighty" in that it will put you to sleep.
At any rate, after considering it all, I'm going to try to learn the double lip method. It's not like I'm playing at Carnegie Hall or anything, but I would like to sound as good as I possibly can.... I guess that is what all of us are striving for.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2004-03-11 21:15
Why not use both? I switch back and forth all the time. Double is great for really soft passages in the low register and throat tones. It also helps keep the pitch from rising. Single works better for loud playing and high notes. Switching also gives you more endurance since slightly different muscles are involved.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2004-03-12 15:47
I have often wondered if single lip is good or bad for one's teeth.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: davor
Date: 2004-03-14 23:37
Double lip is certainly a must, especially if you are a mazochist.
Post Edited (2004-03-14 23:43)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: atl4413
Date: 2004-03-15 17:12
OK - so all weekend I tried to learn Ridenour's double lip method. I must say that it sounds easier than it is; at least for me.
Because you're not "biting", but using your mouth as a wedge in which to insert the mouthpiece, I got really frustrated with it. But, on the positive side, my lips didn't hurt due to the fact that I wasn't biting them.
I guess I need to go back and read the section all over again to see what I'm doing wrong. How much do you insert the mouthpiece? I had difficulty with maintaining "consistent" pressure on the reed, which of course effects tone, pitch, what notes you can hit, or not in my case. I couldn't hit anything above a high F. When I used the thumb support to apply more pressure so that I could hit higher notes, it sounded awful.
I feel like a beginner in elementary school. Should I pull out my old band books with Mary Had A Little Lamb in them?
To add to it, I'm trying to learn how to adjust reeds. I'd say that at this point, for me at least, the adjustment is the easy part; I'm pretty good at sanding reeds down. Learning how to test them to determine what needs to be adjusted has been the difficult part.
I'm in the heart of Frustration City and I've run out of gas!
Any tips on learning Ridenour's double lip method?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JessKateDD
Date: 2004-03-15 17:50
I switch between single lip and double lip quite a bit. If you are a single lip player, and you bite, then double lip will be very difficult for a while. Double lip forces the lips to do more work and the jaw to do less, so you may have to play a softer reed for a while until your lips strengthen up some. Also, you will lose a few notes at the top of your range initially. But not biting will allow your reed to vibrate with a greater amplitude, resulting in a fuller sound. Now if you do not use too much jaw pressure, there is really no need for double lip. I just use it to keep myself honest and avoid biting the mouthpiece. Also, you may wish to use double lip if your top teeth are very sensitive to the vibrations of the mouthpiece.
Another time I use double lip is when I am doubling between clarinet and bass clarinet or a saxophone. For example, I once had to play principal clarinet on Capriccio Espagnole then switched to tenor sax for Lt. Kije on the next piece - big parts both! I used single lip on the clarinet then double lip on the sax. That was a way to loosen up for the bigger mouthpiece - it worked for me.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-15 19:08
For me it would be easier to use the double lip on the clarinet and single on the Saxophone......yikkkkeees!!
David Dow
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom J.
Date: 2004-03-16 01:19
Double-lip is a throwback to the classic Paris Conservatoire school, one of its foremost exponents being Gustave Hamelin who taught Ralph MacLane, who taught Harold Wright, etc. Other European players such as Gino Cioffi also perpetuated the double-lip embouchure in the New World.
Daniel Bonade, however, probably played double-lip earlier in his career but broke with the tradition perhaps sometime after coming to America and, in doing so, established the "American" national style, to which I am an adhrent via Robert Marcellus.
Why not double-lip? I believe Bonade recognized that American orchestras required more "weight" in the sound and more projection from woodwind players than European orchestras. Double- lip may have attributes, but for modern playing it tends to constrict the vibration, narrow the dynamic range, sharpen the pitch and lessen endurance.
One has only to listen to players such as Marcellus, Lurie, Brody, McGinnis,
Drucker, Portnoy, etc. and compare their not-French/not-German sound with that of Wright, Cioffi, Stoltzman, MacLean, Gigliotti, Shifrin etc. Gigliotti, I believe, is an exception to the "American" school since, despite being a Bonade student, he played for many years in Philadelphia with MacLean.
If I had to pick the quintessential, the best "American" sound I would choose that of Ted Oien, a former classmate and principal in the Detroit Symphony.
Incidentally, not only clarinettists were subject to changes in national style. No one would confuse Marcel Tabuteau, William Kincaid or Simon Kovar with their European counterparts.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wicked Good ★2017
Date: 2004-03-16 02:09
I began using a double-lip embouchure 22 years ago under the tutelage of David Seiler at the University of New Hampshire. I had nearly bitten through my lower lip while practicing for my juries. Dave made me stop playing clarinet completely for about a month in order to heal, and then concentrate on bass clarinet for several months.
Once it was deemed safe for me to start playing Bb clarinet again, Dave started me off, slowly and methodically, with a double-lip embouchure. It sure hurt like heck at first, but gradually as my chops gained their strength back, it became obvious that double-lip was the way for me to go. My tone was vastly improved. It became darker and more focused, and once the callous built up on the inside of my upper lip my endurance was at par with what it had been using a single-lip embouchure. I no longer had what Dave called a "foobie-doobie" (jazzy?) sound, but a pure, dark, "woody" sound.
So, for 22 years I've been an advocate of the double-lip clarinet embouchure. The only times I play single-lip now are when I play saxophone. For some reason I don't find my double-lip embouchure satisfying on sax. On clarinet I still play double-lip, as my tone is still much more dark and pure that way. I just can't get comfortable with a single-lip embouchure on clarinet anymore.
To each his or her own. All of my clarinet-playing friends play single-lip, except for Dave Seiler (who, by the way, has an incredibly lush, beautiful tone). The double-lip embouchure is most certainly not a panacea of any kind, but it is my personal embouchure of choice for reasons stated above.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mnorswor
Date: 2004-03-16 12:58
Um... I don't know who told someone that Stoltzman only uses a partial double lip. That couldn't be farther from the truth. He's a true double lip player and has always been since first beginning his work with Kal Opperman. I've been his student and colleague for 5 years now. I'm also a double lip player and can honestly say that I don't know why I didn't switch earlier. Works for me
Best,
Michael
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: atl4413
Date: 2004-03-16 13:39
TomJ wrote:
"Double- lip may have attributes, but for modern playing it tends to constrict the vibration, narrow the dynamic range, sharpen the pitch and lessen endurance."
Tom, Ridenour claims that single lip players always play sharp. Is this rule different for "modern playing". What do you mean when you say modern playing?
My pedantic side says to keep trying until you get it "perfect". However, my other side says, "forget about it", just play whatever way you want; it's not like you're in the symphony.
Should I purchase a tuner to determine if I do play sharp while "single-lipping"?
WickedGood wrote, "My tone was vastly improved. It became darker and more focused." How long after you switched to double did it take you to develop good muscle tone? How long should I expect to wait to see results? I don't mind putting the time in, but I don't want to spend either too much time, or too little, on it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom J.
Date: 2004-03-16 19:02
Mr. Ridenour is certainly entitled to his opinion, but my experience with double-lip, both my own and those I have observed, is different.
Double-lip can tend toward sharpness and limited projection because it usually requires a lighter reed, fine perhaps for chamber music but not for Strauss, Wagner, or even Beethoven.
I spent a summer at Tanglewood in the sixties and got to know and admire Gino Cioffi. What a character!!! He was one of the foremost practitioners of the double-lip embouchure and had a fine sound, but only up close. You may want to listen to any of the BSOs recordings of Brahms symphonies with Munch. Often he tended toward sharpness and his fine sound did not carry. But he was a wonderful musician and had a phenomenal technique.
As far as "modern" (or "American") clarinet playing (my own subjective term, please don't blame anyone else) is concerned, I would characterize it as :
1. No vibrato (at all, nada, nein, nyet, zilch).
2. A sound rich in the lower and middle overtones with a minimum "edge".
3. A relatively large sized, full vibration with no constriction in any register and adaptable to chamber ensembles as well as opera and large concert orchestras.
4. A style of articulation more comparable to a string player's spicatto rather than what I refer to as "spit"-catto.
Interestingly, the "American" national style is being adopted internationally. Players in France (Robert Fontaine, Guy DePlus, Serge Dangain, Guy Dangain, Paul Meyer) while French trained are definitely influenced by the American sound (compared to Cahuzac, Delecluse, etc.). Andrew Marriner is indicative of a sea change in British playing and many German orchestras contain players that have switched to the Boehm system and use American-style equipment. Also, many European players are American trained.
In the final analysis, though, it's what sounds great to you. The great thing about Art is that it exists in the Ether of the Mind and can mean so many things to so many people in so many ways.
Tom J.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2004-03-16 19:42
"Tom J. knows his stuff. Thankyou, sir"
Sure....but with a "handle" like BSS and support from BSL....that's a lot of BS to swallow.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-16 19:48
Quote:
Sure....but with a "handle" like BSS and support from BSL....that's a lot of BS to swallow. Now THAT'S comedy!
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wicked Good ★2017
Date: 2004-03-16 22:03
at14413 wrote,
"WickedGood wrote, "My tone was vastly improved. It became darker and more focused." How long after you switched to double did it take you to develop good muscle tone? How long should I expect to wait to see results? I don't mind putting the time in, but I don't want to spend either too much time, or too little, on it."
Well, as I remember, it took me a good three months before I felt really comfortable with the double-lip embouchure, and probably another month to get the endurance back. I was in college as a music major (education, later switched to performance), so I was practicing several hours a day. YMMV, of course.
I think there has to be a real, tangible reason for wanting to switch from one embouchure to another ... especially if you're thinking about switching to a double-lip. I really don't believe that it's something to undertake lightly or with anything less than full commitment.
For me, double-lip was pretty much a necessity if I wanted to continue playing clarinet. For others, the desire for a richer tone might be a reason. If it's just a whim or a passing fancy, I would advise against it. Furthermore, I think it should be undertaken with the guidance of a knowledgeable instructor.
As for double-lip players playing sharp, that's news to me. I wish someone would tell that to the two orchestras I've been playing with lately. Their pitches are in the stratosphere. I'm well in tune with other ensembles.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world:
Those who understand binary math, and those who don't.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BSL
Date: 2004-03-17 00:12
OUCH!! KO'd in the 1st round!!!! (BSL are my initials, not a handle.)
TOM J. is seems to come from the same school of thought as me. I still think he knows what's going on.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: atl4413
Date: 2004-03-17 01:01
Y'all are a hoot (I say it with a smile)!
Well, thanks for the additional information. It seems that everyone has an opinion, and a very strongly felt one too, when it comes to their playing and what produces the best intonation, pitch.
I would like to have a "rich" sound, centered, focused, well-defined, play effortlessly and fantastically. Hmm...got a few more 50 years to go until that happens, if that ever could happen.
I guess I just have to determine which is more comfortable for me. My husband declares that I sound better with double, but he's no musician. Can't even sing in tune.... I'll give it a few months and then make a decision. Can't hurt to practice both....
Thanks again!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom J.
Date: 2004-03-18 23:27
Have you seen Julia Robert's lips lately ?
I think she now plays "triple-lip'.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Cyladie
Date: 2004-03-19 00:21
i personally play single lip, but since i dont like vibrations i put those nifty little rubber pads on the top of the clarinet mouthpiece and it doesnt rattle or slip around as much
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cowboyjonus
Date: 2004-03-19 00:23
the stuff that i have found to work the best to pad my bottom teeth is sea*bond it is a denture adhesive it is gooey at first but when the goo wears away within 5 minutes it is very good.. the ease o stuff is too waxy and it flakes off ... nasty...
jon j
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wicked Good ★2017
Date: 2004-03-19 00:46
When I played single-lip I used florist's tape (you know, the green or brown stuff they wrap flower stems in for bouquets) on my lower teeth. It made a big difference, but looked gross if I smiled.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world:
Those who understand binary math, and those who don't.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wes
Date: 2004-03-19 07:20
One can get a dentist to smooth off one's sharp teeth edges if they hurt the lips. Medical tape can be used if needed over sharp teeth.
One must open the mouth a little more to use the double lip embouchure and this may have a slight effect on the sound and on the tonguing.
At a Richard Stoltzman seminar, I requested that he play the opening of the Concertino with a double lip and then with a single lip. He most graciously complied as he can play both ways. To me, he sounded better with a single lip embouchure rather than his normal double lip embouchure. The double lip sound was not as stable, I thought.
The solidity of the single lip embouchure gives it's sound a steadyness that may not be there with the double lip embouchure.
As an oboe player, I use a double lip embouchure all the time but not on the clarinet, mostly for comfort and stability of the instrument and the sound. I still recall my early days with the oboe and how precarious the support of the instrument seemed to be because little support appeared to be derived from the mouth. Good luck!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2004-03-19 10:50
'The solidity of the single lip embouchure gives it's sound a steadyness that may not be there with the double lip embouchure'
Hmmm....hadn't really considered this before. So...it's conceivable that double lip produces a mild unintentional vibrato!?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-19 13:18
Quote:
Hmmm....hadn't really considered this before. So...it's conceivable that double lip produces a mild unintentional vibrato!? It does with me. I think that if you use double lip enough and become accustomed to it, your embouchure can develop the "steadiness" and be able to retain it's rigid form no matter what bumps or sways or other movements your clarinet might do in your hands. However for me, whenever I test my double lip embouchure, it's not painful or uncomfortable, but just mainly dificult to retain a steady tone. Any movement in the fingers or swaying in the music (which I sometimes do![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ) makes the mouthpiece move. And that will vary the pressure from the bottom lip as the mouthpiece moves slightly up, down, side to side, in out, or any combination of those. And that produces a slight wavering.
With my top teeth on the mouthpiece (especially with a MPC patch that reduces the chance of 'sliding' on the mouthpiece), in order for the mouthpiece to significantly slide up, down, in, out, side to side, etc. it would require enough finger pressure or swaying to move my entire skull. And that's not likely to happen. With the lips alone, your lips are soft and have enough "elasticity?" to allow a lot more movement of the mouthpiece EVEN if your entire head was held in place perfectly.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2004-03-19 13:20)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Taxijazz
Date: 2004-03-19 14:34
Wow, help me with this. Pain, tape, and all. Some of this makes clarinet playing sound more horrible than ever. I haven't got a clue what all this means, but there are a number of things that other people experience with their clarinets that I don't understand. I've seen mouthpieces with gouges on the top from the teeth and I wondered how that would happen. People talk about squeaks that beginners experience and I don't know why that would happen except if I forced a clarinet to play that leaked--I don't know.
The first time I picked up a clarinet I figured out how to play "Dark Town Strutters Ball" after about a half hour, and I just kept practicing. I practiced a minumum of 10 hours every day and for a couple of months I was looking for a teacher. I made an appointment-- the teacher was sick. Another teacher didn't show up. I kept practicing 10-15 hours a day, and people asked me how long I had been playing. When I said 2 months this lady laughed at me and said "You mean since you were two", but I thought she was kidding to be nice, and I knew I needed a teacher. I finally got togeher with one and the guy said "Oh, no, I was told you were a beginner--"I'm a trumpet player, and I figured you just need to know the basics, but you are already beyond what I know" So I just kept practicing--whatever worked, and continued to practice. At another music store I finally got an appointment with an actual clarinet teacher--She asked me to play for her, and then looked at me like I was silly and asked "What do you need me for?" I said I wanted to learn the clarinet. "She asked what I wanted to play" I said "Like Artie Shaw" And she just raised her eybrows and said "Why don't you just keep practicing". This was very frustrating, and the next time I met with a teacher--I suggested to be careful, but the teacher got a rag stuck inside of my clarinet, and it took him and the store staff two hours to cut it up with little scizzors and pull the rag out through the tone holes (this was an Eb clarinet I was playing all along). I decided to forget about a teacher at this point and continued to practice 10-15 hours every day for 18 months before I took a day off. I met people who said they played clarinet before and asked if I was doing it right and they all agreed--That's all I had to go on. A player with the Cleveland Orchestra, and one with the San Francisco Symphony were among the people I met, and this gave me confidence that I must be doing it right. But nobody ever told me anything about double-lip/single lip, and I don't really know what that means. Now I say all this because don't say ask a teacher now--I enrolled in college as a music major after practicing for 4 years on my own, and the teacher I was assigned to never answered his phone. I just gave up on the thought of a teacher, the other teachers with other parts of the music program seemed to be nuts with ulterior motives, so I didn't need that (But I was inspired to study Cognitive Psychology for another six years). I still played the clarinet, but I gradually cut down to only 30 hours a week practice, and I really want to know what I missed. A book indicated differences in the saxophone embouchure--Is that like double-lip? I can switch from sax to clarinet with the same emboucher, but it doesn't work the other way around. And I thought it was the airflow and the reed that made the sound not the lip. And how do you get pain?
A gang of clarinetist might be able to help me unravel a mystery-- because twice I sold clarinets that I thought played quit well, and one of them insisted that an expert laughed that nobody in the world could play that clarinet. It disturbed me for a long time that this guy was bent out of shape about this clarinet that I thought was great--a Noblet that I sold him for only $150. I thought I was doing him a favor and he fussed like crazy that the clarinet wouldn't "speak", and sent email pictures of the pads (after he removed them!) to all sort of people--And these pictures were supposed to tell me something, but they were just discolored and certainly of no use after being removed from the instrument. I never could figure it out. When I play clarinet I can feel resistance and identify where a pad needs to be replaced, and if the instrument doesn't leak--Well I don't know, but I don't think the color of the pads makes a difference. There may be quite a lot I don't know, I just went for what works, and by trial and error alone selected a Kaspar mouthpiece and a Selmer Centered Tone. With no help at all, and just lots of practice and trial and error with everyting imaginable it seems that a lot of people agree with my choices. There still may be a lot I missed--How could I know? And this lip thing is something I never even heard of. Lots of talk about it here though, so maybe it's real important. I'd like help if I could get some kind of description so I can figure out what it is that I do that seems to work, and if there is something I overlooked.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
