 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: VCMM
Date: 2004-03-02 07:15
Hi all.
Can someone suggest excellent transcriptions of Bach's violin sonatas/partitas and cello suites for the clarinet? Where might I be able to buy the sheet music?
Thanks.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-03-02 10:41
Classical Studies for Clarinet - transcribed and edited by Voxman (Rubank No. 139). These are taken from the Sonatas, Partitas, and Suites, of Bach and Handel.
Use the Sponsors link (Music and Books) on this site to find Van Cott Information Services. They have the book in stock ...GBK
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-03-02 14:02
There's no need to transpose the Bach solo sonatas and partitas. Just read the violin version as it is and let it come out a step down, or read it up a step to practice C transposition. You'll have to ignore the double, triple and quadruple stops, of course, or play them as arpeggios, but that's what violinists have to do anyway on the triples and quads.
It's also a good idea to become fluent in bass clef, and there's no better way than working on the Bach solo cello suites in the original notation. The only problematic one is the sixth, which was written for a five-string cello with scordatura tuning (i.e., where some of the strings are transposing "instruments," and the notes are written transposed), but even there, most editions also include an untransposed version. If you need it in treble clef, Gary Van Cott has a version for english horn that works perfectly on clarinet.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: larryb
Date: 2004-03-02 14:27
Ken's right, but there are several other good transcriptions for clarinet.
I have the Riccordi collection of various movements from Cello Suites and solo Violin works (I think edited by Giamperi).
There's also a French edition of just the Cello Suites, I think edited by Delecluse, that's supposed to be quite good.
I've begun playing from my daughter's Cello part on basset horn to learn bass clef - next step will be to learn how to transpose from C to F in the bass clef (not able to do it in treble yet). Good way to keep the mind nimble, I suppose.
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Author: VCMM
Date: 2004-03-02 14:37
I had considered playing these pieces straight from their original sources, but thought that they probably exceed the clarinet's range on either end. Having to suddenly jump up or down an octave to accommodate for these out-of-range notes really do disrupt the flow of music. Also, I don't know about Bach's violin partitas in particular, but violin works are often written such that much of the music reside in an uncomfortably high, albeit playable, register for the clarinet, which renders the piece unsuitable for performance. Many of these problems are probably solveable with careful preparation of the score, but I am far too lazy to do that myself :-p This is why I am looking for a pre-prepared score.
I did find this online, and was wondering about its quality:
J.S. Bach - 21 Pieces for Clarinet transcribed by Alamiro Giampieri. Ricordi
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Author: Anders
Date: 2004-03-02 17:16
I recently discovered the publication below and found it quite well done; thoughtfully edited and beautifully printed, too. It is obviously a miscellany...
Bach for the Clarinet transcribed and edited by Ronald L. Caravan. Ethos Publications. 1998. 68 pages. "This book contains selected movements from unaccompanied sonatas, partitas, and suites by J.S. Bach. The works were originally written for violin, cello, or flute. This material has been adapted for clarinet because of its extraordinary potential value for developing phrasing, a sense of style, and overall musicianship. The editor has included an explanation of how these pieces were adapted for a wind instrument."
(...well, of course the flute pieces weren't adapted for a wind instrument...)
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2004-03-02 20:03
I'd start with the Voxman (listed under Coxman at SheetMusicPlus, BTW). 72 pages, of which all but 6 or 7 are from Bach's solo violin and solo cello suites, edited by a legend (who is still alive and playing at 91). Cost: $2 back in 1962. Cost today ... $7. What a bargain.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: VCMM
Date: 2004-03-02 20:36
I just looked up the Voxman at Sheetmusicplus.com
They listed the contents as such:
...
Partita I In B Minor (Bach)
Partita Ii In D Minor (Bach)
Partita Iii In E (Bach)
Cello Suite I (Bach)
Cello Suite Ii (Bach)
Cello Suite Iii (Bach)
Cello Suite Iv (Bach)
Cello Suite Vi (Bach)
...
They don't possibly mean ENTIRE partitas or suites here, do they?!? If so this is an incredible deal!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-03-02 20:44
I have the Voxman book. The works are not complete, but there's plenty there to keep you busy. Everything in the book is playable on clarinet, which is not always the case. I doubt that it would be possible to do the Chaconne on clarinet. It's almost all double stops.
The cello suites, of course, go down to low C, the cello's bottom note. However, you can read them as if they were in treble clef, moving the key signature 3 positions "sharpward."
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: VCMM
Date: 2004-03-02 20:55
"I doubt that it would be possible to do the Chaconne on clarinet. It's almost all double stops."
Too bad. It's one of my favorites. I was hoping someone managed to tailor it for the clarinet, but I think you are right... it just wouldn't be the same. A shame nonetheless.
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Author: Micaela
Date: 2004-03-02 21:43
Actually, the tessitura of the majority of the Sonatas and Partitas is well within the clarinet's grasp. I don't think there are more than a few places with notes higher than an F.
I highly recommend Nathan Milstein's recording for the violin works.
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Author: VCMM
Date: 2004-03-03 04:00
Hmm perhaps you are right. I'll have to check it out for myself.
As for recording, yes I have listened to Milstein's performance (DG, not EMI), as well as Grumiaux's, Menuhin's, Szeryng's, Hahn's, Heifetz's (only the Chaconne)....
If I had to pick a favorite, it would be the Grumiaux.
Post Edited (2004-03-03 04:01)
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Author: Francesca
Date: 2004-03-03 05:04
I purchased a transcription of the Bach cello suites from the internet bass clarinet society website. It's written ideally for a bass with low C extension, but there's no problem in taking those couple of notes up the octave. Honestly I'd recommend sight transposing. It's not nearly as awful as it seems, I promise!
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Author: Anders
Date: 2004-03-03 17:15
The Chaconne has been transcribed for flute by Robert Stallman, a fine artist. Surely if the poor little flute can tackle it...
(and don't forget, Bellison had the chutzpah to transcribe the Chromatic Fantasy, granted, minus the fugue...)
So, go for it (what are multiphonics for?)!
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Author: beejay
Date: 2004-03-04 21:13
I have a beautiful version of the Chaconne arranged by Gustave Langenus, published in 1953 by the Ensemble Music Press of Meadville, Pa.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-03-04 21:30
The JSBach Six Suites for unaccompanied Violincello has been transcribed for Bass Clarinet by Kim and Michael Davenport.
I think Dorn publications carries it, as a regular item.
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-03-04 22:16
As a violist and clarinetist I find the idea of transcribing sonatas written for multi-timbral instruments (cello or violin) to a mono-timbral one (clarinet) just very odd.
Every single one of these masterpieces is reliant on having chords played. In Bach's day the bow was much more "bowed" and playing 3 or 4 notes (double stops) simultaneous was much easier than on our modern bows and the result was that the chords play with 3 or 4 strings giving rich blocks of sound.
As to Ken's comment about scordatura tuning ... I've never, in all my years seen the sixth cello suite written with the scordatura notated ... I've only ever seen it in it's modern version (intended for the 4 string cello). Such as education.
I think it would be "better" for such pieces as Bach's beautiful Violin Concerti to be transposed as they (two of them) are far less reliant on virtuosic double stopping. My two cents worth.
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Author: Anders
Date: 2004-03-05 17:53
Intrumentalists just to want to poach from others, it seems.
Lately it's become fashionable for violists to record the Brahms Clarinet Quintet (Bashmet, Schotten) -- and they already have 2 of their own! Yes yes, as with the Clar. sonatas, Brahms somewhere muttered his approval (or more likely, the publisher wanted to sell more copies), but sheesh -- talk about desecration! Similarly, I don't think the violin version of the Prokofiev Flute Sonata improves on the original (and I love Milstein, Oistrakh, et al, too), though it that case, the composer, no doubt plied with copious amounts of Stolychnaya, had a hand in it.... but...
All musicians should have the joy of playing Bach...
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-03-05 21:04
Anders -
I think Prokofiev wrote the violin version first and then transcribed it for flute. Please correct me if I'm wrong. At any rate, it works beautifully for flute. On clarinet it's less good. I heard Larry Combs do it live, and it's just too high, even for him.
I heard Bashmet's recording of the Brahms Quintet on the radio last week. I expected to hate it, but it was quite wonderful, even if it wasn’t the tone color Brahms had in mind.
I have no jealousy of violists for poaching the Brahms Sonatas, though even the best versions lack something. The clarinet can boom on the low notes, where the viola loses power, and ascend to the stratosphere with ease, where the clarinet is tense. Among violists, only Pinchas Zuckerman, Lionel Tertis and Rudolph Barshai had enough power. Even Primrose (who played on a Guarneri) had problems.
IMHO the best recording ever of the Brahms Sonata #1 was by Isaac Stern on violin. I have it on LP, and it may not have been reissued on CD.
Viva transcriptions. I couldn't do without the Schumann Romances, and I can't live without Bach.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Anders
Date: 2004-03-05 22:53
Ken,
Small confession...I'm a serious amateur flutist who is rediscovering his first love for the clarinet and thoroughly enjoying these pages...(one reason I took up the flute was frustration at trying to play Bach on the clarinet, or let us say the lack of genuine Bach compositions for that instrument...)
A scholarly article re: the Prokofiev sonata recently appeared in the National Flute Association Quarterly. Prokofiev conceived the idea to write a sonata for the flute, which he felt was lacking in repertoire (how true!). He was specifically inspired by the playing of the great French-American flutist Georges Barrere, whom he had heard during his sojourn in the U.S. in the 1920's. After the successful Russian wartime premiere by a flutist named Kharkovsky with Sviatoslav Richter(!) on the ivories, David Oistrakh took a fancy to the piece and suggested to P that it would suit the violin. P made the transcription with the assistance of O and it has of course been a popular violin vehicle ever since. The thing is, it's kind of like transcriptions of "Death and the Maiden" or the Shostakovich Quartet No. 8 for string orchestra: the palpable sense of struggle is lost. For the flute the Prokoviev sonata is a pretty monumental task; for the violin it's a lyrical little ditty. (Prokoviev's first violin sonata is by contrast a really deep, demonic, tragic utterance...)
I certainly agree with your viva transcriptions! Take the Vaughn-Williams Six Studies in English Folksong. I believe it was originally a cello piece (it's been transcribed for everything), but having had the immeasurable good fortune to hear Reginald Kell play it at a NJ All State band clinic in the 60's, it will forever be for me a clarinet work.
I haven't heard the Bashmet recording of the Brahms Quintet; maybe I should (I was fulminating on general principles, always a mistake). He is certainly a unique musician and would probably do justice to the sonatas as well. I regrettably never acquired the Stern recording -- one more to search for...
Cheers,
Anders
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Author: gwie
Date: 2004-03-08 12:32
I've found the Voxman Bach transcriptions to be wonderful for clarinet. All of my violin/viola students get introduced to the unaccompanied sonatas/partitas and suites at some point, and getting my clarinet students to study and work through the musical challenges of these works as well is invaluable. I agree, though, that not all of the movements work well on clarinet (simply because some rely on specific string-instrument techniques that don't translate to the clarinet in any reasonable way; for ex., string crossing effects in the 3rd Partita, Preludio).
Other than that, there isn't any reason why whichever instrument we study should dictate whether or not we experience the musical works of one of the greatest composers who ever lived. :P
There's a nicely presented urtext version of the the violin sonatas/partitas and the cello suites (along with additional transcriptions for violin, viola, and cello for the other respective instrument) at: http://icking-music-archive.org/, all in PDF format.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-03-08 15:03
Anders -
Thanks for the information. My brain cells fired in reverse order, I guess.
The Prokofiev realy does put pressure on even the best flutists. The only recording I've ever heard that shows no sign of strain is what I think is the very first one, by Doriot Anthony Dwyer on an ancient Boston LP, and perhaps Galway.
I love the sonata on violin, though. It's certainly lyrical, but I think it's more than just a "little ditty." It's very different from the other Prokofiev violin sonata, which, as you say, is much grittier, but, for example, the Prokofiev first violin concerto is much more lyrical than the second, and is, I think, the better piece.
Thanks also to gwie for mentioning the Werner Icking Music Archive, which is a treasure trove of free baroque music scores and parts. There's little for clarinet, which didn't exist during the period on which Icking concentrates, but there's loads of music that can be played on clarinet.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Anders
Date: 2004-03-08 18:04
Ken,
Well, "ditty" was of course facetious. I, too, would gladly hear a good fiddler play the Prokofiev 2nd Sonata...
Speaking of transcriptions, how about the Schumann Violin Sonatas on clarinet? Niedich did well by them...
A travesty, though is the Piazzolla 6 Etudes in the "edition" for clarinet/sax. It isn't an edition, transcription or transposition: it's the same exact music and tessitura as the original flute edition; they just switched covers (but some french player, I forget who, is credited with doing something -- what?). Some enterprising clarinettist ought to rethink them in terms of the clarinet's range, and approach Lemoine about a reprint....such wonderful pieces...
Best,
Anders
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The Clarinet Pages
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